Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

struggle4progress

(126,126 posts)
24. My gut reactions to the Carpinteri claims
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 05:29 PM
Feb 2014

Carpinteri apparently believes that compression or fracture of certain rocks can produce nuclear reactions. In particular, with respect to the Shroud of Turin, he apparently claims earthquakes can produce neutron emissions from some rocks and that these earthquake-related neutron fluxes are of such magnitude as would affect the isotopic compositions in ground-level cloth (such as the Shroud of Turin)

One should first note that current experience suggests any effect of the electron shell of an atom on nuclear reactions in the atomic nucleus is very weak -- so even if Carpinteri were right that some nuclear reaction rates might be briefly accelerated in certain minerals under earthquake conditions, one should not expect a large effect. Moreover, earthquakes are subterranean, and the majority of any produced neutrons would be absorbed or reflected by dense surrounding rock before reaching the surface. Finally, a few layers of a low density material like cloth is not likely to capture a high percentage of a given neutron flux

So a neutron flux in some region of Italy, sufficient to change the radiocarbon date of the Shroud, would necessarily have been large at ground level and would have been enormous at the subterranean source. It should have left isotopic anomolies in other local materials, and the method of producing such neutron fluxes should be easily detectable in the laboratory. But for the most part, no one seems to have reproduced any such enormous fluxes by fracturing rock; and regional radiocarbon dating doesn't appear to be problematic

Alberto Carpinteri .. was director of the Istituto Nazionale di Ricerca Metrologica (INRiM) in Turin ... In 2013 INRiM was set in temporary receivership and Carpinteri dismissed after the resignation of two-thirds of the board of directors in objection of Carpinteri's support in the purported theory of piezonuclear fission.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Except it hasn't been explained how it was fabricated. rug Feb 2014 #1
It was a miracle! Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #3
And controlled inquiry has not explained how it was made. rug Feb 2014 #4
Hmmm. longship Feb 2014 #9
What guy? I hadn't heard that. rug Feb 2014 #11
Nope. All one has to do is falsify it. longship Feb 2014 #15
That really doesn't do it. rug Feb 2014 #18
Well, the accuracy is high enough to state that the shroud certainly is not a 1st century object. longship Feb 2014 #20
Not quite. There was no fourteenth century technique to create it. rug Feb 2014 #36
So you are certain that there was no Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #39
Don't be coy, Warren. rug Feb 2014 #40
You made the assertion that it could not Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #41
You made the assertion it's a hoax. rug Feb 2014 #42
It is a hoax based on its dating. Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #43
That's just a part of it. Replicate it. rug Feb 2014 #44
Been done edhopper Feb 2014 #45
Been debunked. rug Feb 2014 #46
By members of STURP? edhopper Feb 2014 #47
Compared to the Italian Committee for Checking Claims on the Paranormal? rug Feb 2014 #51
LIKE debating a creationist edhopper Feb 2014 #56
"Debunked" by Catholic idiots who know nothing about identifying skepticscott Feb 2014 #72
Ok, post the evidence instead of idiotically calling people idiots. rug Feb 2014 #74
Try reading a book, ruggie skepticscott Feb 2014 #76
McCrone is hardly the last word. rug Feb 2014 #79
I haven't heard anything about a "deathbed confession," either. okasha Feb 2014 #65
And there is edhopper Feb 2014 #68
It's not a negative skepticscott Feb 2014 #71
There are several people edhopper Feb 2014 #33
if you're referring to Joe Nickell, I'm not impressed. rug Feb 2014 #34
The Joe Nickel effort at replication okasha Feb 2014 #66
Yes edhopper Feb 2014 #67
It doesn't even match the Biblical description exboyfil Feb 2014 #2
Shhhhhh. Facts matter little when dealing with religious beliefs. cleanhippie Feb 2014 #5
In that case, please do explain how it was made. rug Feb 2014 #6
It was made by a special very local earthquake. Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #7
I see. You have no explanation. rug Feb 2014 #12
It was a miracle! God made it Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #14
Lol! cleanhippie Feb 2014 #25
Clearly. Had you one you'd have produced it. rug Feb 2014 #35
It was aliens. trotsky Feb 2014 #8
If it was done by hoaxsters, there should be evidence of how it was done. rug Feb 2014 #13
"God did it" Goblinmonger Feb 2014 #16
That is the case. rug Feb 2014 #17
Do you believe it was the shroud of Jesus Goblinmonger Feb 2014 #19
I doubt it. But I'm more interested in knowing how it was done. rug Feb 2014 #23
I like the da Vinci theory. reusrename Feb 2014 #27
Did they find any silver sulphate on the shroud? rug Feb 2014 #28
Is this a test? reusrename Feb 2014 #29
No. Isn't the da Vinci theory that he was commissioned to replace an earlier one? rug Feb 2014 #30
Whether or not da Vinci ever made use of one of those is still up for debate. reusrename Feb 2014 #31
Well, there's another theory that the Mona Lisa is a self-portrait. rug Feb 2014 #32
the camera obscura was not a camera in the modern sense, but merely a device struggle4progress Feb 2014 #59
facts are not important. Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #60
Apparently not. rug Feb 2014 #62
Has RationalWiki let me down yet again? rug Feb 2014 #61
Sort of. The camera obscura doesn't require Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #63
Perhaps not: I may just be running my mouth again struggle4progress Feb 2014 #64
And the fact that pigments were found edhopper Feb 2014 #69
The Shroud is of no particular importance to me; it is irrelevant to my theological views; and struggle4progress Feb 2014 #70
Submit the whole thing for independent analysis. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #48
Won't ever happen edhopper Feb 2014 #49
It has, at least twice. Thevresults are inconclusive. rug Feb 2014 #50
I thought McCrone did this in 1979/80? enlightenment Feb 2014 #54
hmmm edhopper Feb 2014 #57
He did, and none of those findings have been proven false skepticscott Feb 2014 #73
I personally think it was not the real burial shroud. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #10
Apparently it does not even match 1st century burial practices. longship Feb 2014 #21
That same rule apples to all those "Jesus' Foreskin" artifacts, too. arcane1 Feb 2014 #52
Looking for Neutrons in a Rock Crushing Experiment struggle4progress Feb 2014 #22
My gut reactions to the Carpinteri claims struggle4progress Feb 2014 #24
I hope you didn't have to do a Google search skepticscott Feb 2014 #37
Carpinteri went off the rails with his piezo-electric-rock-fracture-induced-nuclear-reaction theory struggle4progress Feb 2014 #38
One good thing about DU - we argue about EVERYTHING!!! Laf.La.Dem. Feb 2014 #26
LOL...no. Iggo Feb 2014 #53
No, an earthquake doesn't explain and doesn't need to skepticscott Feb 2014 #55
Amen edhopper Feb 2014 #58
Speaking of "starting with a conclusion and reasoning backwards", produce the "well known" technique rug Feb 2014 #75
It's called grisaille skepticscott Feb 2014 #77
40 seconds. rug Feb 2014 #78
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Religion»Could ancient earthquake ...»Reply #24