Religion

cbayer

(146,218 posts)

13. Right, but it's fun!

Reply to longship (Reply #10)

Wed Feb 12, 2014, 07:16 PM

Feb 2014

So kids like it and he's got his foot in the door in a way that science sometimes doesn't.

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Why You Might Have to Choose Between Science and Faith [View all] cbayer Feb 2014 OP

It's a difficult problem, probably without a resolution. longship Feb 2014 #1

Even Darwin, after much struggle, believed that science could be embraced cbayer Feb 2014 #2

I agree with your recommendation, but only in part. longship Feb 2014 #5

Agree that it doesn't always work, but what is being done isn't working cbayer Feb 2014 #7

Ham's museum is 100% lies. longship Feb 2014 #10

Right, but it's fun! cbayer Feb 2014 #13

But that museum is an exemplar of everything that is wrong about religion. longship Feb 2014 #22

I am by no means defending the museum. cbayer Feb 2014 #24

I think Neil deGrasse Tyson is doing just that. longship Feb 2014 #25

Agree about NDT and glad to see that he will be starting a new series soon. cbayer Feb 2014 #26

You got it, cbayer! Remember Mr. Wizard? longship Feb 2014 #31

Oh, man, I loved that show cbayer Feb 2014 #34

That's just beautiful. longship Feb 2014 #36

Enjoy. I've been cooking black beans all night and am cbayer Feb 2014 #37

Darwin eventually discarded religion because it is incompatible with science. nt Deep13 Feb 2014 #78

I think Darwin's beliefs and lack of beliefs are much more complex than that. cbayer Feb 2014 #81

His auto-biography makes it clear that he was a complete skeptic at the end of his life. Deep13 Feb 2014 #85

But there are reports that he took a different position as he was dying. cbayer Feb 2014 #89

Those reports were bald faced lies... gcomeau Feb 2014 #152

Well, that's one interpretation and since neither cbayer Feb 2014 #153

His family was. gcomeau Feb 2014 #154

Hadn't read that. Do you have a link? cbayer Feb 2014 #155

Here you go... gcomeau Feb 2014 #156

Thanks. That's a story about his having expressed regret that cbayer Feb 2014 #157

+1 Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #158

There are ALWAYS such reports Brainstormy Feb 2014 #180

He never identified as an atheist, but cbayer Feb 2014 #181

Lots of pressure from family and Catholic Church, to "accept" God in the last breath; and be "saved" Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #199

The human brain is a pattern recognition machine among a great many other things Fumesucker Feb 2014 #3

Wow, that is one dense article. cbayer Feb 2014 #4

A lot of it is informed speculation, extrapolation and so on Fumesucker Feb 2014 #6

The brain/mind dichotomy really interests me. cbayer Feb 2014 #9

We have no examples of mind without a brain that I'm aware of Fumesucker Feb 2014 #16

There are still many things which we assume are brain functions but really are cbayer Feb 2014 #19

Isn't it phil89 Feb 2014 #82

An argument from ignorance as in "We don't know the answer to that at this time"? cbayer Feb 2014 #87

No phil89 Feb 2014 #90

Oh, ok. I think many religious people do keep investigating. cbayer Feb 2014 #92

Ok phil89 Feb 2014 #95

Not sure what you are asking. cbayer Feb 2014 #98

so your claim is that there is serious investigation going with respect to theory of consciousness Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #105

Check out Julian Jaynes's _The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind_. nt tblue37 Feb 2014 #30

I see no major problem in believing in a creator and also believing in evolution. ... spin Feb 2014 #8

And you are not alone. cbayer Feb 2014 #12

Thanks. I downloaded "The Sparrow" and look forward to reading it. ... spin Feb 2014 #55

Will look into that. cbayer Feb 2014 #56

It may be a while until I get to it. ... spin Feb 2014 #62

In the meantime, thanks for your evolutionary idea: religion as materially functional(at times). Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #136

My son in law who is agnostic feels religion is the Santa Claus story for adults. ... spin Feb 2014 #141

The most fervently religious nations are not the most peaceful or ordered ones Fumesucker Feb 2014 #20

Throughout our history, the United States has had a strong religious foundation. ... spin Feb 2014 #51

If evolution explains the development of life, what did the creator do? Deep13 Feb 2014 #83

There's much about the universe that we don't understand. ... spin Feb 2014 #109

It's not arrogance, it's honesty. Deep13 Feb 2014 #121

Scientists have often been wrong. ... spin Feb 2014 #122

Name one naturalistic theory that has been supplanted by a supernatural explanation... Act_of_Reparation Feb 2014 #131

That's a fair challenge and impossible to do as a supernatural event can't be explained by spin Feb 2014 #139

How did they find out they were wrong? nt Deep13 Feb 2014 #142

Sometimes when something goes bang. ... spin Feb 2014 #144

So Chernobyl proves there is a god? Deep13 Feb 2014 #145

Of course not. Your question was how did scientists figure out that they were wrong? ... spin Feb 2014 #146

"it eventually says something had to come from nothing" Lordquinton Feb 2014 #147

The creator is eternal to us. ... spin Feb 2014 #171

But, by your words, the creator needs a creator Lordquinton Feb 2014 #175

It largely comes down to if you are openminded or not. ... spin Feb 2014 #183

Really? Lordquinton Feb 2014 #193

So one wonders why you brought Chernobyl into it at all skepticscott Feb 2014 #149

So one wonders why you asked the question ... spin Feb 2014 #172

I think you misunderstand the big bang... Deep13 Feb 2014 #163

There is not evidence. cbayer Feb 2014 #164

There is "not evidence" of the big bang? Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #166

There is evidence but there are scientists who dispute it. ... spin Feb 2014 #174

ah you seem to think science is another religiuon that accepts things "as gospel". Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #186

I fear science may be becoming a form of a religion. ... spin Feb 2014 #188

your gish gallop here is commendable. Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #189

Thanks. So is yours. (n/t) spin Feb 2014 #191

Nor is it evidence that there is no creator. ... spin Feb 2014 #173

a claim nobody here has made. Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #187

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. ... spin Feb 2014 #190

You quoted Carl Lordquinton Feb 2014 #194

In the post you're replying to (190) I said... spin Feb 2014 #196

Not a problem. SamKnause Feb 2014 #11

I don't think it's you he is saying needs to choose. cbayer Feb 2014 #15

I am well aware. SamKnause Feb 2014 #18

The "cooler heads"... MellowDem Feb 2014 #14

Sorry, MD. Lots of people do have their cake and eat it too. cbayer Feb 2014 #17

I know many people are comfortable... MellowDem Feb 2014 #21

Compartmentalization can be a very useful tool. cbayer Feb 2014 #23

It's a bad thing... MellowDem Feb 2014 #29

Do you have any data to back up that it is a "bad thing" or is that just part cbayer Feb 2014 #33

I have very good evidence... MellowDem Feb 2014 #60

So where is the evidence you speak of? cbayer Feb 2014 #69

Let's not call false beliefs hypothesis... MellowDem Feb 2014 #118

Sorry, you can't call something false unless you have some evidence that it is cbayer Feb 2014 #123

Oh, so you must mean that people who consider the existence skepticscott Feb 2014 #129

It depends on how god is defined... MellowDem Feb 2014 #140

You can't call something true without evidence either Lordquinton Feb 2014 #148

I agree and I equally reject the positions of those who claim to "know" cbayer Feb 2014 #151

"building cathedrals" really - no science there, just a minor adjunct to cathedral building. Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #161

A cursory search on PBS shows at least 2 NOVA's and such devoted to cathedral building Heddi Feb 2014 #162

So you're claiming Inspiration is purely religious? Lordquinton Feb 2014 #169

Not claiming that at all, just saying that it sometimes is. cbayer Feb 2014 #170

I'm following your lead here Lordquinton Feb 2014 #176

I'm adamant that science is dull and emotionless? Not in the least. cbayer Feb 2014 #177

I'm reading you at face value here Lordquinton Feb 2014 #178

I would suggest you are reading me through your own filters. cbayer Feb 2014 #179

Why should it be made easier and more comfortable skepticscott Feb 2014 #39

How closed is your mind to Republican ideas, cbayer? trotsky Feb 2014 #67

One can consider an idea without accepting it. el_bryanto Feb 2014 #68

But that is not what cbayer is saying. trotsky Feb 2014 #72

Once Christians accept evolution, they have a big question: why did Jesus die and get resurrected? muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #27

I never believed in Adam abpnd Eve but have always believed in sin. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #28

Belief in the death of a person we now call Jesus, a pretty certain bet. Beachwood Feb 2014 #42

Well you can choose not to believe it. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #43

So just where and when and how were the laws of nature suspended ? Beachwood Feb 2014 #44

I believe he is the son of God. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #45

Science be damned, you have your beliefs to protect Beachwood Feb 2014 #47

Oh Lord! hrmjustin Feb 2014 #49

Lol, you have encountered a true beliver. rug Feb 2014 #64

Where did he go off to? We were just starting to have fun! cbayer Feb 2014 #74

I think I scared him. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #96

Entemology? Had to look that one up (and couldn't find it). cbayer Feb 2014 #52

He meant entomology. Clearly the study of insects flows naturally from a discussion of theology. rug Feb 2014 #65

Maybe he meant oenology. That would make more sense with the cbayer Feb 2014 #70

I think he already saturated himself in oenology. rug Feb 2014 #73

entOmology - the study of insects muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #75

I figured that is what he meant. I was just poking him. cbayer Feb 2014 #76

ah - I missed that they had edited (nt) muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #77

What is your view of orthography? rug Feb 2014 #66

Beachwood has a good point that everyone is avoiding: what about all the science religion negates? Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #133

Besides literal interpretation like creationism, what science doe religion negate? cbayer Feb 2014 #135

Two words to start the list of " what science doe religion negate?" Beachwood Feb 2014 #185

That doesn't negate science. cbayer Feb 2014 #200

Transubstantiation is not a foundational word of Christianity. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #201

Yes. Transubstantiation is an explanation, Fortinbras Armstrong Feb 2014 #211

Most physical "miracles" conflict with science. Liberals therefore often read them as metaphors. Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #197

You are unable to hold both concepts in your brain and don't believe in a god or cbayer Feb 2014 #50

Yes, some people can hold skepticscott Feb 2014 #54

Why do you perpetuate and reinforce such tired stereotypes, cbayer? trotsky Feb 2014 #71

Non sequitur. okasha Feb 2014 #195

The problem, as I see it, is that we teach our children faith before we teach them science Beachwood Feb 2014 #32

Because kids often start going to church before they start going to school. cbayer Feb 2014 #35

So you think it's okay to delay science until after learning about faith? Beachwood Feb 2014 #38

I didn't say that or anything remotely like that. cbayer Feb 2014 #46

Most likely because that's how they were taught it Prophet 451 Feb 2014 #59

NO. Leontius Feb 2014 #182

No, you don't agree? Why not? Beachwood Feb 2014 #184

Too timid an approach. Start them on astrophysics. rug Feb 2014 #192

It seems to me notemason Feb 2014 #40

How does "the other" (religion) actually have a "purpose" of Beachwood Feb 2014 #41

Why investigate on his own time when you are here to school him? cbayer Feb 2014 #53

I think that is not an unusual position in general and it makes good sense. cbayer Feb 2014 #48

I don't think one has to choose Prophet 451 Feb 2014 #57

That's his point. You don't have to choose. cbayer Feb 2014 #58

You are presupposing a truth... MellowDem Feb 2014 #61

When something is unanswerable... Prophet 451 Feb 2014 #63

We aren't forced to make something up... MellowDem Feb 2014 #119

Religion phil89 Feb 2014 #79

Some religion oppresses. Some religion liberates. cbayer Feb 2014 #84

So religions phil89 Feb 2014 #88

Different religions have very different takes on things. cbayer Feb 2014 #91

That's my point phil89 Feb 2014 #94

Why can't they all be right? cbayer Feb 2014 #100

because claims that are mutually contradictory cannot both be true. Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #106

Already did. Evidence won. Tradition lost. Deep13 Feb 2014 #80

He's not directing it to you. cbayer Feb 2014 #86

I do believe in the unitary solution. Deep13 Feb 2014 #120

I think that when one speaks of something as concrete and definitive as weight, cbayer Feb 2014 #124

Religion and science can only both be right if Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #132

Warren is correct Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #134

There is such evidence. Deep13 Feb 2014 #143

But your entire argument is based on there being some kind of interventional cbayer Feb 2014 #150

Well, that and selection by the environment. Deep13 Feb 2014 #165

Yes, that is correct. Those are the basic tenets of evolution. cbayer Feb 2014 #167

because no question of any sort is adequately answered by "have faith...." mike_c Feb 2014 #93

Oh, malarkey. cbayer Feb 2014 #97

That's not based on faith phil89 Feb 2014 #99

And religious believers feel they have reason to believe based cbayer Feb 2014 #101

Actually, I don't phil89 Feb 2014 #102

You may have indications that things are true. cbayer Feb 2014 #103

There you go again. trotsky Feb 2014 #104

it's the second time she's done it in this thread Heddi Feb 2014 #137

I don't get the black and white thinking. phil89 Feb 2014 #107

Wait, it seems that your reasoning is the black or white, reductive thinking here. cbayer Feb 2014 #108

There either is or is not a supernatural phil89 Feb 2014 #110

And do you know whether there is or is not? cbayer Feb 2014 #111

Again, your entire argument hinges upon your equivocation of the word "faith." trotsky Feb 2014 #112

Regarding the love argument... Act_of_Reparation Feb 2014 #113

I do not argue that we should strive to have faith, only that it cbayer Feb 2014 #114

This is so pointless... Act_of_Reparation Feb 2014 #125

You are right, it is pointless. cbayer Feb 2014 #126

Spare me your self-pitious sanctimony Act_of_Reparation Feb 2014 #127

Bravo! trotsky Feb 2014 #128

I think I'm in love Heddi Feb 2014 #138

I don't know whether there is or not phil89 Feb 2014 #115

And you are well within your rights to reject that claim personally, but cbayer Feb 2014 #117

You've brought up skepticscott Feb 2014 #130

Faith comes into marriage because you are getting married with the belief that it will work. Fortinbras Armstrong Feb 2014 #210

Nonsense. trotsky Feb 2014 #214

The only way my comment is "nonsense" is if you were to get married Fortinbras Armstrong Feb 2014 #228

It's nonsense and you just proved my point. trotsky Feb 2014 #230

You take one part of one sentence of what I wrote to respond to Fortinbras Armstrong Feb 2014 #232

They may change a lot, they may change a bit, they might not change much at all. trotsky Feb 2014 #235

"If you go into a marriage with the faith that your partner won't change, you're a fool." Fortinbras Armstrong Feb 2014 #236

So then, turns out you had nothing to say after all. trotsky Feb 2014 #238

"So then, turns out you had nothing to say after all." Fortinbras Armstrong Feb 2014 #239

Keep digging that hole. trotsky Feb 2014 #240

It is essentially what I claimed he said Fortinbras Armstrong Feb 2014 #243

And there's the proof that I'm right and you're wrong. trotsky Feb 2014 #244

It is interesting that you keep bleating that I misquoted him Fortinbras Armstrong Mar 2014 #247

Many have thought Science and Religion are incompatible, but both useful. So: compartmentalize Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #116

There is no need to make this a contest Gothmog Feb 2014 #159

That is the point the author is making actually. cbayer Feb 2014 #160

That is exactly the author's point. cbayer Feb 2014 #204

The misuse of the word "metaphor". Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #168

Did people misunderstand the Bible - and the natural science buried beneath "solstice"? Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #198

Religion is the pretension of knowledge, not the pursuit of it, it provides easy answers, but not... Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #202

If that was your experience, so be it. cbayer Feb 2014 #203

How do you define knowledge, cbayer? trotsky Feb 2014 #205

What religion only asks questions, and doesn't provide answers? I can think of none that don't... Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #206

I've searched my post and can't find the word "only" anywhere in it. cbayer Feb 2014 #207

"The claims of religion are untestable by their very nature..." This, right here, is my point... Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #208

Let's be accurate. You can derive no answers from such things. cbayer Feb 2014 #209

Why do you want to change the meaning of words to become meaningless? Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #221

What word have I changed to meaningless? cbayer Feb 2014 #222

Uhm, those aren't knowledge, you may have knowledge of them, they exist, but they aren't... Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #223

No, I have no idea what "we" are talking about. cbayer Feb 2014 #224

Your definitions of God are all over the place, some of them make me a theist, which is just silly. Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #225

They should be all over the place, that's the point. cbayer Feb 2014 #226

A definition of knowledge which flies in the face of centuries of epistemological research? Act_of_Reparation Feb 2014 #231

You say Fortinbras Armstrong Feb 2014 #229

Is reality subjective in your world? I ask because you are basically arguing that words... Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #233

YOU are the one who has an overly narrow definition of knowledge Fortinbras Armstrong Feb 2014 #237

Bullshit, straight up, unadulterated bullshit. You and him make belief equal knowledge... Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #241

Translation: Humanist-Activist disagrees with me, but doesn't have a meaningful argument Fortinbras Armstrong Feb 2014 #242

Actually I have been asking for an example of knowledge gleaned from belief or faith... Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #245

The claims of Religious "knowledge" DO seem FAR less certain than Science Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #212

The claims of religion are less certain by there very nature, but cbayer Feb 2014 #213

Generally "facts" are said to be objectively verifiable things. Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #215

OMG!! I made a typo, lol!!!!! cbayer Feb 2014 #216

At least you haven't claimed to be okasha Feb 2014 #217

Okasha: Time after time you've asked for facts. And I've furnished them - while you have not Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #219

Let's talk a minute about Exodus 4:4. okasha Feb 2014 #227

Learn to see generic similarities and larger patterns: Moses touches/grabs a snake is not related? Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #234

The only problem with your "facts" okasha Feb 2014 #246

When studying culture, Social Scientists look for larger patterns; major phenomena Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #248

What I am is someone who types very quickly and recklessly, but I am none of things cbayer Feb 2014 #220

"Facts" explicitly and by name, figure in both definitions of knowledge listed above. Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #218