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spin

(17,493 posts)
174. There is evidence but there are scientists who dispute it. ...
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 06:42 PM
Feb 2014
Cosmology

Science Stifled by Dogma

Funding Denied for Plasma Cosmology Research


A group of cosmologists, other scientists and engineers have published an open letter in New Scientist May 22nd 2004. Their purpose is to draw attention to the current policy on research funding which seems to be governed by dogmatism and prejudice in favour of "establishment" science. The specific case refers to the denial of funding for research into Plasma Cosmology. The Big Bang theory has been the generally accepted explanation of the origins of the Universe since 1965, in spite of serious theoretical problems. New observational evidence is now accumulating against Big Bang. Lerner and his supporters contend that Plasma Cosmology provides a superior basis for understanding the Universe. They protest that decisions on research funding are taken in the interests of supporting the status quo rather than advancing scientific understanding.
In this article we give a background to the controversy, highlight some of the severe problems which have afflicted Big Bang in recent years, and give examples of recent observational evidence which, whilst readily explained in terms of Plasma Cosmology, appears to refute Big Bang entirely.

***snip***

Flaws in the Big Bang

The recent history of the Big Bang theory has been of mathematical struggle to find solutions to a sea of problems. We are now a very long way from Hawking’s ideal of a theory which “on the basis of a few simple postulates will make definite predictions which can be tested”. For example, when it became impossible to reconcile the standard cosmological model with the Universe as it appears, the concept of inflation involving a finite period of inflationary expansion was introduced. Since the proposal of what is now termed old inflation by Guth in 1981, we have experienced new inflation, chaotic inflation, eternal inflation, stochastic inflation, modified gravity, and their sub-variants. At the end of which, we have no evidence that inflation ever happened. All the above theories and their numerous variants are effectively attempts to explain the “facts” as we know them by mathematical modelling. Depending on results from the Large Hadron Collider, due to be completed at Geneva in 2005, it may be possible to determine whether we are in living in a (mem)brane universe in 11 dimensions of space time.7

It may not be unfair to conclude that the modern Big Bang theory comes with more patches and fixes than a piece of Bill Gates’ software. ...emphasis added

***snip***

Science Obstructed by Dogma In spite of the accumulation of observational evidence against it, and the array of fudge factors necessary to its survival, Big Bang remains the primary model of cosmology. The time has now come for serious investigation into an alternative explanation. This is the message of Lerner’s Open Letter. His complaint is that because of the entrenchment of Big Bang in the scientific establishment, it has become virtually impossible to obtain funding for open-minded research. Worse than that, young scientists who make bold to doubt the establishment theory put their careers in jeopardy - as Stephen Hawking did in his time. "Even observations are now interpreted through this biased filter, judged right or wrong depending on whether or not they support the big bang. So discordant data on red shifts, lithium and helium abundances, and galaxy distribution, among other topics, are ignored or ridiculed." This reflects a growing dogmatic mindset that is alien to the spirit of free scientific enquiry.
http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/Cosmology/index.html


I have no idea if any of the arguments against the Big Bang theory are valid but I do feel that it is unwise for the science community to accept one theory as gospel and reject those who disagree with it as heretics.

Religion has a long history of dogmatism but science should always be ready to consider conflicting views.

The problem may not be with the scientists but with governments who fund research.


Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

It's a difficult problem, probably without a resolution. longship Feb 2014 #1
Even Darwin, after much struggle, believed that science could be embraced cbayer Feb 2014 #2
I agree with your recommendation, but only in part. longship Feb 2014 #5
Agree that it doesn't always work, but what is being done isn't working cbayer Feb 2014 #7
Ham's museum is 100% lies. longship Feb 2014 #10
Right, but it's fun! cbayer Feb 2014 #13
But that museum is an exemplar of everything that is wrong about religion. longship Feb 2014 #22
I am by no means defending the museum. cbayer Feb 2014 #24
I think Neil deGrasse Tyson is doing just that. longship Feb 2014 #25
Agree about NDT and glad to see that he will be starting a new series soon. cbayer Feb 2014 #26
You got it, cbayer! Remember Mr. Wizard? longship Feb 2014 #31
Oh, man, I loved that show cbayer Feb 2014 #34
That's just beautiful. longship Feb 2014 #36
Enjoy. I've been cooking black beans all night and am cbayer Feb 2014 #37
Darwin eventually discarded religion because it is incompatible with science. nt Deep13 Feb 2014 #78
I think Darwin's beliefs and lack of beliefs are much more complex than that. cbayer Feb 2014 #81
His auto-biography makes it clear that he was a complete skeptic at the end of his life. Deep13 Feb 2014 #85
But there are reports that he took a different position as he was dying. cbayer Feb 2014 #89
Those reports were bald faced lies... gcomeau Feb 2014 #152
Well, that's one interpretation and since neither cbayer Feb 2014 #153
His family was. gcomeau Feb 2014 #154
Hadn't read that. Do you have a link? cbayer Feb 2014 #155
Here you go... gcomeau Feb 2014 #156
Thanks. That's a story about his having expressed regret that cbayer Feb 2014 #157
+1 Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #158
There are ALWAYS such reports Brainstormy Feb 2014 #180
He never identified as an atheist, but cbayer Feb 2014 #181
Lots of pressure from family and Catholic Church, to "accept" God in the last breath; and be "saved" Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #199
The human brain is a pattern recognition machine among a great many other things Fumesucker Feb 2014 #3
Wow, that is one dense article. cbayer Feb 2014 #4
A lot of it is informed speculation, extrapolation and so on Fumesucker Feb 2014 #6
The brain/mind dichotomy really interests me. cbayer Feb 2014 #9
We have no examples of mind without a brain that I'm aware of Fumesucker Feb 2014 #16
There are still many things which we assume are brain functions but really are cbayer Feb 2014 #19
Isn't it phil89 Feb 2014 #82
An argument from ignorance as in "We don't know the answer to that at this time"? cbayer Feb 2014 #87
No phil89 Feb 2014 #90
Oh, ok. I think many religious people do keep investigating. cbayer Feb 2014 #92
Ok phil89 Feb 2014 #95
Not sure what you are asking. cbayer Feb 2014 #98
so your claim is that there is serious investigation going with respect to theory of consciousness Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #105
Check out Julian Jaynes's _The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind_. nt tblue37 Feb 2014 #30
I see no major problem in believing in a creator and also believing in evolution. ... spin Feb 2014 #8
And you are not alone. cbayer Feb 2014 #12
Thanks. I downloaded "The Sparrow" and look forward to reading it. ... spin Feb 2014 #55
Will look into that. cbayer Feb 2014 #56
It may be a while until I get to it. ... spin Feb 2014 #62
In the meantime, thanks for your evolutionary idea: religion as materially functional(at times). Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #136
My son in law who is agnostic feels religion is the Santa Claus story for adults. ... spin Feb 2014 #141
The most fervently religious nations are not the most peaceful or ordered ones Fumesucker Feb 2014 #20
Throughout our history, the United States has had a strong religious foundation. ... spin Feb 2014 #51
If evolution explains the development of life, what did the creator do? Deep13 Feb 2014 #83
There's much about the universe that we don't understand. ... spin Feb 2014 #109
It's not arrogance, it's honesty. Deep13 Feb 2014 #121
Scientists have often been wrong. ... spin Feb 2014 #122
Name one naturalistic theory that has been supplanted by a supernatural explanation... Act_of_Reparation Feb 2014 #131
That's a fair challenge and impossible to do as a supernatural event can't be explained by spin Feb 2014 #139
How did they find out they were wrong? nt Deep13 Feb 2014 #142
Sometimes when something goes bang. ... spin Feb 2014 #144
So Chernobyl proves there is a god? Deep13 Feb 2014 #145
Of course not. Your question was how did scientists figure out that they were wrong? ... spin Feb 2014 #146
"it eventually says something had to come from nothing" Lordquinton Feb 2014 #147
The creator is eternal to us. ... spin Feb 2014 #171
But, by your words, the creator needs a creator Lordquinton Feb 2014 #175
It largely comes down to if you are openminded or not. ... spin Feb 2014 #183
Really? Lordquinton Feb 2014 #193
So one wonders why you brought Chernobyl into it at all skepticscott Feb 2014 #149
So one wonders why you asked the question ... spin Feb 2014 #172
I think you misunderstand the big bang... Deep13 Feb 2014 #163
There is not evidence. cbayer Feb 2014 #164
There is "not evidence" of the big bang? Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #166
There is evidence but there are scientists who dispute it. ... spin Feb 2014 #174
ah you seem to think science is another religiuon that accepts things "as gospel". Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #186
I fear science may be becoming a form of a religion. ... spin Feb 2014 #188
your gish gallop here is commendable. Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #189
Thanks. So is yours. (n/t) spin Feb 2014 #191
Nor is it evidence that there is no creator. ... spin Feb 2014 #173
a claim nobody here has made. Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #187
That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. ... spin Feb 2014 #190
You quoted Carl Lordquinton Feb 2014 #194
In the post you're replying to (190) I said... spin Feb 2014 #196
Not a problem. SamKnause Feb 2014 #11
I don't think it's you he is saying needs to choose. cbayer Feb 2014 #15
I am well aware. SamKnause Feb 2014 #18
The "cooler heads"... MellowDem Feb 2014 #14
Sorry, MD. Lots of people do have their cake and eat it too. cbayer Feb 2014 #17
I know many people are comfortable... MellowDem Feb 2014 #21
Compartmentalization can be a very useful tool. cbayer Feb 2014 #23
It's a bad thing... MellowDem Feb 2014 #29
Do you have any data to back up that it is a "bad thing" or is that just part cbayer Feb 2014 #33
I have very good evidence... MellowDem Feb 2014 #60
So where is the evidence you speak of? cbayer Feb 2014 #69
Let's not call false beliefs hypothesis... MellowDem Feb 2014 #118
Sorry, you can't call something false unless you have some evidence that it is cbayer Feb 2014 #123
Oh, so you must mean that people who consider the existence skepticscott Feb 2014 #129
It depends on how god is defined... MellowDem Feb 2014 #140
You can't call something true without evidence either Lordquinton Feb 2014 #148
I agree and I equally reject the positions of those who claim to "know" cbayer Feb 2014 #151
"building cathedrals" really - no science there, just a minor adjunct to cathedral building. Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #161
A cursory search on PBS shows at least 2 NOVA's and such devoted to cathedral building Heddi Feb 2014 #162
So you're claiming Inspiration is purely religious? Lordquinton Feb 2014 #169
Not claiming that at all, just saying that it sometimes is. cbayer Feb 2014 #170
I'm following your lead here Lordquinton Feb 2014 #176
I'm adamant that science is dull and emotionless? Not in the least. cbayer Feb 2014 #177
I'm reading you at face value here Lordquinton Feb 2014 #178
I would suggest you are reading me through your own filters. cbayer Feb 2014 #179
Why should it be made easier and more comfortable skepticscott Feb 2014 #39
How closed is your mind to Republican ideas, cbayer? trotsky Feb 2014 #67
One can consider an idea without accepting it. el_bryanto Feb 2014 #68
But that is not what cbayer is saying. trotsky Feb 2014 #72
Once Christians accept evolution, they have a big question: why did Jesus die and get resurrected? muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #27
I never believed in Adam abpnd Eve but have always believed in sin. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #28
Belief in the death of a person we now call Jesus, a pretty certain bet. Beachwood Feb 2014 #42
Well you can choose not to believe it. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #43
So just where and when and how were the laws of nature suspended ? Beachwood Feb 2014 #44
I believe he is the son of God. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #45
Science be damned, you have your beliefs to protect Beachwood Feb 2014 #47
Oh Lord! hrmjustin Feb 2014 #49
Lol, you have encountered a true beliver. rug Feb 2014 #64
Where did he go off to? We were just starting to have fun! cbayer Feb 2014 #74
I think I scared him. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #96
Entemology? Had to look that one up (and couldn't find it). cbayer Feb 2014 #52
He meant entomology. Clearly the study of insects flows naturally from a discussion of theology. rug Feb 2014 #65
Maybe he meant oenology. That would make more sense with the cbayer Feb 2014 #70
I think he already saturated himself in oenology. rug Feb 2014 #73
entOmology - the study of insects muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #75
I figured that is what he meant. I was just poking him. cbayer Feb 2014 #76
ah - I missed that they had edited (nt) muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #77
What is your view of orthography? rug Feb 2014 #66
Beachwood has a good point that everyone is avoiding: what about all the science religion negates? Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #133
Besides literal interpretation like creationism, what science doe religion negate? cbayer Feb 2014 #135
Two words to start the list of " what science doe religion negate?" Beachwood Feb 2014 #185
That doesn't negate science. cbayer Feb 2014 #200
Transubstantiation is not a foundational word of Christianity. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #201
Yes. Transubstantiation is an explanation, Fortinbras Armstrong Feb 2014 #211
Most physical "miracles" conflict with science. Liberals therefore often read them as metaphors. Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #197
You are unable to hold both concepts in your brain and don't believe in a god or cbayer Feb 2014 #50
Yes, some people can hold skepticscott Feb 2014 #54
Why do you perpetuate and reinforce such tired stereotypes, cbayer? trotsky Feb 2014 #71
Non sequitur. okasha Feb 2014 #195
The problem, as I see it, is that we teach our children faith before we teach them science Beachwood Feb 2014 #32
Because kids often start going to church before they start going to school. cbayer Feb 2014 #35
So you think it's okay to delay science until after learning about faith? Beachwood Feb 2014 #38
I didn't say that or anything remotely like that. cbayer Feb 2014 #46
Most likely because that's how they were taught it Prophet 451 Feb 2014 #59
NO. Leontius Feb 2014 #182
No, you don't agree? Why not? Beachwood Feb 2014 #184
Too timid an approach. Start them on astrophysics. rug Feb 2014 #192
It seems to me notemason Feb 2014 #40
How does "the other" (religion) actually have a "purpose" of Beachwood Feb 2014 #41
Why investigate on his own time when you are here to school him? cbayer Feb 2014 #53
I think that is not an unusual position in general and it makes good sense. cbayer Feb 2014 #48
I don't think one has to choose Prophet 451 Feb 2014 #57
That's his point. You don't have to choose. cbayer Feb 2014 #58
You are presupposing a truth... MellowDem Feb 2014 #61
When something is unanswerable... Prophet 451 Feb 2014 #63
We aren't forced to make something up... MellowDem Feb 2014 #119
Religion phil89 Feb 2014 #79
Some religion oppresses. Some religion liberates. cbayer Feb 2014 #84
So religions phil89 Feb 2014 #88
Different religions have very different takes on things. cbayer Feb 2014 #91
That's my point phil89 Feb 2014 #94
Why can't they all be right? cbayer Feb 2014 #100
because claims that are mutually contradictory cannot both be true. Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #106
Already did. Evidence won. Tradition lost. Deep13 Feb 2014 #80
He's not directing it to you. cbayer Feb 2014 #86
I do believe in the unitary solution. Deep13 Feb 2014 #120
I think that when one speaks of something as concrete and definitive as weight, cbayer Feb 2014 #124
Religion and science can only both be right if Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #132
Warren is correct Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #134
There is such evidence. Deep13 Feb 2014 #143
But your entire argument is based on there being some kind of interventional cbayer Feb 2014 #150
Well, that and selection by the environment. Deep13 Feb 2014 #165
Yes, that is correct. Those are the basic tenets of evolution. cbayer Feb 2014 #167
because no question of any sort is adequately answered by "have faith...." mike_c Feb 2014 #93
Oh, malarkey. cbayer Feb 2014 #97
That's not based on faith phil89 Feb 2014 #99
And religious believers feel they have reason to believe based cbayer Feb 2014 #101
Actually, I don't phil89 Feb 2014 #102
You may have indications that things are true. cbayer Feb 2014 #103
There you go again. trotsky Feb 2014 #104
it's the second time she's done it in this thread Heddi Feb 2014 #137
I don't get the black and white thinking. phil89 Feb 2014 #107
Wait, it seems that your reasoning is the black or white, reductive thinking here. cbayer Feb 2014 #108
There either is or is not a supernatural phil89 Feb 2014 #110
And do you know whether there is or is not? cbayer Feb 2014 #111
Again, your entire argument hinges upon your equivocation of the word "faith." trotsky Feb 2014 #112
Regarding the love argument... Act_of_Reparation Feb 2014 #113
I do not argue that we should strive to have faith, only that it cbayer Feb 2014 #114
This is so pointless... Act_of_Reparation Feb 2014 #125
You are right, it is pointless. cbayer Feb 2014 #126
Spare me your self-pitious sanctimony Act_of_Reparation Feb 2014 #127
Bravo! trotsky Feb 2014 #128
I think I'm in love Heddi Feb 2014 #138
I don't know whether there is or not phil89 Feb 2014 #115
And you are well within your rights to reject that claim personally, but cbayer Feb 2014 #117
You've brought up skepticscott Feb 2014 #130
Faith comes into marriage because you are getting married with the belief that it will work. Fortinbras Armstrong Feb 2014 #210
Nonsense. trotsky Feb 2014 #214
The only way my comment is "nonsense" is if you were to get married Fortinbras Armstrong Feb 2014 #228
It's nonsense and you just proved my point. trotsky Feb 2014 #230
You take one part of one sentence of what I wrote to respond to Fortinbras Armstrong Feb 2014 #232
They may change a lot, they may change a bit, they might not change much at all. trotsky Feb 2014 #235
"If you go into a marriage with the faith that your partner won't change, you're a fool." Fortinbras Armstrong Feb 2014 #236
So then, turns out you had nothing to say after all. trotsky Feb 2014 #238
"So then, turns out you had nothing to say after all." Fortinbras Armstrong Feb 2014 #239
Keep digging that hole. trotsky Feb 2014 #240
It is essentially what I claimed he said Fortinbras Armstrong Feb 2014 #243
And there's the proof that I'm right and you're wrong. trotsky Feb 2014 #244
It is interesting that you keep bleating that I misquoted him Fortinbras Armstrong Mar 2014 #247
Many have thought Science and Religion are incompatible, but both useful. So: compartmentalize Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #116
There is no need to make this a contest Gothmog Feb 2014 #159
That is the point the author is making actually. cbayer Feb 2014 #160
That is exactly the author's point. cbayer Feb 2014 #204
The misuse of the word "metaphor". Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #168
Did people misunderstand the Bible - and the natural science buried beneath "solstice"? Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #198
Religion is the pretension of knowledge, not the pursuit of it, it provides easy answers, but not... Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #202
If that was your experience, so be it. cbayer Feb 2014 #203
How do you define knowledge, cbayer? trotsky Feb 2014 #205
What religion only asks questions, and doesn't provide answers? I can think of none that don't... Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #206
I've searched my post and can't find the word "only" anywhere in it. cbayer Feb 2014 #207
"The claims of religion are untestable by their very nature..." This, right here, is my point... Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #208
Let's be accurate. You can derive no answers from such things. cbayer Feb 2014 #209
Why do you want to change the meaning of words to become meaningless? Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #221
What word have I changed to meaningless? cbayer Feb 2014 #222
Uhm, those aren't knowledge, you may have knowledge of them, they exist, but they aren't... Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #223
No, I have no idea what "we" are talking about. cbayer Feb 2014 #224
Your definitions of God are all over the place, some of them make me a theist, which is just silly. Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #225
They should be all over the place, that's the point. cbayer Feb 2014 #226
A definition of knowledge which flies in the face of centuries of epistemological research? Act_of_Reparation Feb 2014 #231
You say Fortinbras Armstrong Feb 2014 #229
Is reality subjective in your world? I ask because you are basically arguing that words... Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #233
YOU are the one who has an overly narrow definition of knowledge Fortinbras Armstrong Feb 2014 #237
Bullshit, straight up, unadulterated bullshit. You and him make belief equal knowledge... Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #241
Translation: Humanist-Activist disagrees with me, but doesn't have a meaningful argument Fortinbras Armstrong Feb 2014 #242
Actually I have been asking for an example of knowledge gleaned from belief or faith... Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #245
The claims of Religious "knowledge" DO seem FAR less certain than Science Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #212
The claims of religion are less certain by there very nature, but cbayer Feb 2014 #213
Generally "facts" are said to be objectively verifiable things. Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #215
OMG!! I made a typo, lol!!!!! cbayer Feb 2014 #216
At least you haven't claimed to be okasha Feb 2014 #217
Okasha: Time after time you've asked for facts. And I've furnished them - while you have not Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #219
Let's talk a minute about Exodus 4:4. okasha Feb 2014 #227
Learn to see generic similarities and larger patterns: Moses touches/grabs a snake is not related? Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #234
The only problem with your "facts" okasha Feb 2014 #246
When studying culture, Social Scientists look for larger patterns; major phenomena Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #248
What I am is someone who types very quickly and recklessly, but I am none of things cbayer Feb 2014 #220
"Facts" explicitly and by name, figure in both definitions of knowledge listed above. Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #218
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