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Religion

In reply to the discussion: Can somone explain to me [View all]

Igel

(37,543 posts)
18. Because Jesus' quotes are often from those writings.
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 02:51 PM
Mar 2014

Many of his words allude to those writings, either the ideas, the laws, the stories and history, the events, or the people.

When he speaks in the setting attributed to him, those writings are what people would have had in mind. He would have known this. What he says and what they do are consistent with this.

When he said "justice" he wasn't speaking to those who went to Berkeley in the 1960s and 1970s, and talking about economic, environmental, or social justice. We forget that not everybody is local to us, not everybody speaks to us, personally, not everything is properly understood from our narrow POV. (And we do this even as we accuse others of committing the sin. We impose a burden on others we're often not willing to bear ourselves.)

He was speaking to those for whom "justice" was doing as the OT said to do to others: You treated people impartially when enforcing the law, which was defined as good. When he said "mercy' his listeners would have understood a certain thing, and he would have known that's what his words would have meant: Not being rigorous in seeking that the law be applied on a personal level, understanding their situations, being generous. "Righteousness" would have been acting in accord with God's will.

From the POV of a standard Jew in 25 AD, the same God who destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah was the one who said "love God with all your heart" and "love your neighbor as yourself." The same one who said not to look with pity on the poor nor with favor on the rich when judging a case of theft also said to help those who were poor and decried the arrogance of the rich. The OT God defended the poor as did Jesus. He decried the arrogance of the rich as did Jesus. And yet he was impartial--when the poor were disobedient, they also merited punishment. (This is rather new--a God that showed favor at the national and not the personal level.)

Jesus pointed out that God was merciful and that many of the iron-clad restrictions of the Pharisees were unmerited impositions. Steal God's showbread to survive, help a beast by pulling it out of the ditch on the Sabbath--they're not only okay, they're good. God forgave these offenses, obviously offenses against God, because life trumps property or such trespasses. Nobody made the mistake of thinking Jesus said it was okay for the poor to steal another person's bread, though; mercy required isn't voluntary or "being merciful", and so it would be up to the owner of the bread to decide what to do.


In short, the OT is around because without the OT Jesus has no background. People have already decontextualized the texts, deconstructed them to find their own truths and immediately reconstructed them around those newly-found truths, and that's with the OT stuck onto the NT. Either they have the background they appear to have or the people who already show blatant contempt for the texts should just be honest and say, "We should do this because I think it's right."

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Can somone explain to me [View all] pscot Mar 2014 OP
The God explained in both the Old and New Testament sounds very much like a psycho sadist. Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #1
The stories about the moral Mondays pscot Mar 2014 #2
Religions that are well-financed, and which can get funding (for ex. Bible's required tithing) Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #5
Truth pscot Mar 2014 #6
Yes lol It is. And since people are scared... Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #7
Tupperware and Avon? I don't see the similarity here. cbayer Mar 2014 #12
It's evangelical pscot Mar 2014 #21
Seems like a pretty cheap comparison, but whatever floats your boat. cbayer Mar 2014 #22
The average salary for christian ministers in the us is $28,000/year. cbayer Mar 2014 #11
But it's a career, and not everyone makes $28,000. Some make a great deal more. It's like any Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #19
Not sure what you mean by career or why that might be a bad thing. cbayer Mar 2014 #20
Well, to engage in promoting things spiritual for a profit... nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #26
Most churches just barely scrape by. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #28
I guess I really have a horrible opinion of churches in this country. They're GOP Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #30
Maybe the loudest ones but not all. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #31
My sister's church is not a loud one, and doesn't focus much on GOP politics, and yet... Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #33
Yes many are rw but not all. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #34
As I just pointed out, there is not much if any "profit" for most ministers. cbayer Mar 2014 #29
I know plenty of clergy that just scrape by. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #32
Of course you do. This is just one more in the long list of either misconceptions or cbayer Mar 2014 #40
It is a calling more than a career. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #27
How Christians rationalize the Old Testament excesses Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #3
That seems backward pscot Mar 2014 #4
Because Jesus' quotes are often from those writings. Igel Mar 2014 #18
Seems partially right. But even sayings by "Jesus" DO work some changes on the OT Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #42
The old testament was a bunch of rules that Israeliles felt kept them in good standing with God. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #8
Did your god require a blood sacrifice to attone for the sins of the Old Testament? LiberalAndProud Mar 2014 #14
I have many questions as to why thr God I believe in would require the blood sacrifice hrmjustin Mar 2014 #15
I once had an interesting conversation with my father on this subject. LiberalAndProud Mar 2014 #17
Not to be negative or imply anything specifically about you but AtheistCrusader Mar 2014 #36
It is all taken on faith. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #45
Say what you will about the OT God(s), the worse they could do was kill you, NT God... Humanist_Activist Mar 2014 #9
Well, there's that pscot Mar 2014 #10
And not just burn, but give you the gift of everlasting life, specifically so you CAN AtheistCrusader Mar 2014 #37
Lots of people profess christianity while rejecting much of what is in Leviticus. cbayer Mar 2014 #13
And apparently there are plenty of Christians pscot Mar 2014 #23
Apparently there are plenty of people of all kinds willing to support these things. cbayer Mar 2014 #24
If that's what you're looking for, okasha Mar 2014 #35
The ten commandments is a heap of bullshit. AtheistCrusader Mar 2014 #38
10 isn't a duplicate of 8 edhopper Mar 2014 #39
Are there possible exceptions for bright red Ferraris? justhanginon Mar 2014 #46
Not quite. okasha Mar 2014 #47
If it's a heap of bullshit to you, then shovel it right out your door. cbayer Mar 2014 #41
Nope. AtheistCrusader Mar 2014 #43
That's too bad. cbayer Mar 2014 #44
One of the joys of being a linguist okasha Mar 2014 #48
I have found that is true living with someone who speaks multiple languages as well. cbayer Mar 2014 #49
The Books of Moses (old testament) are the core writings of Judaism. Half-Century Man Mar 2014 #16
Leviticus 19: struggle4progress Mar 2014 #25
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