Religion

cbayer

(146,218 posts)

153. Ah, and we were having such a nice, civil conversation.

Sun Mar 23, 2014, 06:33 PM

Mar 2014

I've worked with seriously psychiatrically ill people for a very long time. I have a very high degree of tolerance and religious people don't even come close to what these people experience.

Like I said, when people's beliefs become harmful to others or cause them to become unable to safely care for themselves, I will be very clear and very vocal in my intervention.

But otherwise, I really am a live and let live kind of person.

Sorry if you find that unacceptable.

What do you want to do with them, anyway?

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Was the Big Bang the Genesis? [View all] pinto Mar 2014 OP

No CBGLuthier Mar 2014 #1

May be. pinto Mar 2014 #2

Interesting question. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #3

It crossed my mind as religious allegory and scientific theory. Neither define a "before", yet both pinto Mar 2014 #5

Yes they do. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #8

If a day could have been millions or billions of years instead of 24 hours, stopbush Mar 2014 #80

I agree that Genesis is not science. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #82

I agree. Too bad the message sucked as much as the bad science. stopbush Mar 2014 #84

Genesis was really written to set up the religion. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #85

Genesis was written to place men (not women, BTW) at the center of god's created universe. stopbush Mar 2014 #87

Unfortunately you are right that it was used to keep women as property hrmjustin Mar 2014 #88

The Old Testament is a horrible, horrible document, and the NT isn't much better. stopbush Mar 2014 #94

Wait. Did you just say that biblical philosophy is as bad and maybe worse, than fascism? cbayer Mar 2014 #95

Yes I did. Have you ever read the Bible, specifically, the law of the Bible? stopbush Mar 2014 #101

Are you not able to read critically? cbayer Mar 2014 #116

And I thought we were getting along. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #97

Most certainly not, you fascist!! cbayer Mar 2014 #98

I just knew I was an evildoer! hrmjustin Mar 2014 #99

You tell me - are we supposed to take the Bible as a whole, or are we to cherry pick it, stopbush Mar 2014 #100

I believe in a God of love. The people who wrote that stuff were tribal and war like. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #104

You're a cherry picker, for sure. stopbush Mar 2014 #108

I think it takes guts to believe and nit to believe in many parts of this world. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #110

I lived in NYC for 12 years. Made my living singing, often in churches. stopbush Mar 2014 #112

I understand how you feel. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #113

Why would a cherry picked faith be a cheap commodity. cbayer Mar 2014 #119

Because it demands nothing beyond the cherry picker's opinion. stopbush Mar 2014 #120

Where did you get the idea that something must be "demanded" in order cbayer Mar 2014 #121

I was explaining why I called faith cheap. stopbush Mar 2014 #125

I don't know about that. cbayer Mar 2014 #128

Religious beliefs aren't make believe - people hold them and some firmly believe them. stopbush Mar 2014 #136

You can't legitimately say that something is make believe unless you cbayer Mar 2014 #138

Saddam's WMD have still not been proven to not exist. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #139

Here's one for you: the Virgin birth of Jesus. stopbush Mar 2014 #140

You really don't get the basic edhopper Mar 2014 #141

That's right, ed. I really don't get the basic idea of critical inquiry. cbayer Mar 2014 #142

I thought we were talking about edhopper Mar 2014 #143

Stories are stories. cbayer Mar 2014 #144

Would mythical edhopper Mar 2014 #145

My disposition? I don't know about that, but allegory, metaphor, story, parable cbayer Mar 2014 #146

Yes edhopper Mar 2014 #147

I'm not going to be in total agreement with you about "fictional". cbayer Mar 2014 #149

Because you live in a World where edhopper Mar 2014 #150

I understand that some beliefs have important and deleterious effects cbayer Mar 2014 #151

Well if you think somebody that doesn't understand edhopper Mar 2014 #152

Ah, and we were having such a nice, civil conversation. cbayer Mar 2014 #153

I think it's a matter of challenging beliefs that are patently untrue edhopper Mar 2014 #154

Pointing out errors or challenging someone is not the same thing as mocking. cbayer Mar 2014 #155

Mocking is reserved to the patently ridiculous beliefs edhopper Mar 2014 #156

and with that, the entire category of "fiction" was wiped out. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #148

And are you not also cherry picking? Starboard Tack Mar 2014 #123

I'm not accusing the Jews of committing genocide. I'm reporting what the Bible says they did. stopbush Mar 2014 #166

all the horrible and goofy parts are "metaphor" and only a vanishingly small bit of all christians Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #105

Q: What's the definition of a "religious metaphor"? stopbush Mar 2014 #109

or something so horrendous to modern sensibility that it has to be disappeared. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #114

Actually in my church we are in the majority. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #126

Across all christian denominations in the US, "liberal christians" are a distinct minority. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #130

Really. Are you talking about the people eho make up the denomination or the hrmjustin Mar 2014 #131

No. ACROSS ALL DEMONINATIONS. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #132

Of course one has to cherry pick. cbayer Mar 2014 #118

From that perspective, most of the Bible is rotten fruit. stopbush Mar 2014 #122

No, it's not mostly rotten fruit, though there is some in there. cbayer Mar 2014 #124

Of course the Bible and the Constitution have similarities. stopbush Mar 2014 #127

Ok, let's go through this. cbayer Mar 2014 #129

Of course it's mostly rotten fruit. stopbush Mar 2014 #167

Jesus is pretty rotten and a loathsome creature? Wow, that's a stretch. cbayer Mar 2014 #168

Apparently, you've not read his words. stopbush Mar 2014 #169

Cherry picking for the rotten cherries. cbayer Mar 2014 #170

Distortions? Spoken like the true religious apologist stopbush Mar 2014 #171

Ok, I'm an apologist and you are a religophobe. cbayer Mar 2014 #174

I'm more of an anti-theist than a religophobe. stopbush Mar 2014 #175

Religonophobe, anti-theist - it's all the same ugly crap, imo. cbayer Mar 2014 #176

You act as if I'm the only person who thinks Jesus in a monster. stopbush Mar 2014 #177

Oh, no. I am very aware that you are not the only one. cbayer Mar 2014 #178

No comment on Mr Lewis' thoughts? stopbush Mar 2014 #179

I'm not a defender of specific religious beliefs and have no interest in cbayer Mar 2014 #180

If you're not interested in debating things like the virgin birth stopbush Mar 2014 #181

Because faith isn't believing in things that have been proven false. cbayer Mar 2014 #182

Who gets to decide what is a good fruit and what's bad? trotsky Mar 2014 #133

it depends on the argument being made Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #134

It goes like this: trotsky Mar 2014 #135

It all stems from a disturbing lack of critical evaluation Act_of_Reparation Mar 2014 #137

Was was he doing EvilAL Mar 2014 #59

Another great question. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #60

I do. EvilAL Mar 2014 #61

We disagree. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #62

You don't wonder EvilAL Mar 2014 #63

I never said I don't wonder. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #64

Do you have a hypothesis EvilAL Mar 2014 #66

I assume he found something to do. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #67

hahah, ok then.. EvilAL Mar 2014 #68

You too. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #69

He might be addicted to Sudoku like I am. cbayer Mar 2014 #70

hah, yeah EvilAL Mar 2014 #71

Much of that is from years as a moderator. cbayer Mar 2014 #72

I am an atheist, but in a multiverse, a god would hardly run out of things to do prior to creating tblue37 Mar 2014 #79

Interesting question. AlbertCat Mar 2014 #158

I like to think God got the ball rolling on it. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #159

I like to think God got the ball rolling on it. AlbertCat Mar 2014 #161

Well I believe there is a God. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #162

Yeah, writers of Iron Age stories understood the Big Bang. Goblinmonger Mar 2014 #4

Bingo. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2014 #6

Yeah place, time and context count. Doesn't make it bullshit. Just what it was. pinto Mar 2014 #10

It's not a dismissal of "earlier concepts" skepticscott Mar 2014 #20

I'm not dismissing "early concepts" Act_of_Reparation Mar 2014 #27

That was not my point Goblinmonger. pinto Mar 2014 #9

The Big Bang and Genesis both speak to the beginning of the known universe. AlbertCat Mar 2014 #160

Yeah they do. It's an interesting parallel. pinto Mar 2014 #164

I thought something like that when I was in elementary school, but I read differently now struggle4progress Mar 2014 #7

It's an interesting speculation but I don't think so. rug Mar 2014 #11

Yeah, of course it's just speculation. What caught me was those guys in the eastern Mediterranean pinto Mar 2014 #12

Stepping out. Actually sleeping out. Mild night, stars and all that. pinto Mar 2014 #13

????? left-of-center2012 Mar 2014 #14

No space. No time. Quantum fluctuations. AtheistCrusader Mar 2014 #36

Lawrence Krauss explains it in "A Universe From Nothing." stopbush Mar 2014 #81

Yes. The Genesis story is entirely scientific. LiberalAndProud Mar 2014 #15

No Warpy Mar 2014 #16

Why not? Both try to explain why we are here and... TreasonousBastard Mar 2014 #17

Because that's what I call a lie... uriel1972 Mar 2014 #19

^This^ mr blur Mar 2014 #21

You do realize that it is impossible for our species to... TreasonousBastard Mar 2014 #32

Who does it hurt? Act_of_Reparation Mar 2014 #34

That's a separate problem with our species. TreasonousBastard Mar 2014 #35

Would you care to qualify that statement? Act_of_Reparation Mar 2014 #37

It ends inquiry. AtheistCrusader Mar 2014 #38

Assuming any conclusion can often lead to an end to inquiry. cbayer Mar 2014 #45

That's the thing. They are. AtheistCrusader Mar 2014 #46

It is erroneous to assume that religious people don't question or cbayer Mar 2014 #48

Let's see Michael Behe walk back some of his irreducibly complex claims from the Kitzmiller AtheistCrusader Mar 2014 #50

Exactly. Rigid, tight-sphincter'd, blinder'd thinking can appear anywhere... villager Mar 2014 #51

Agree. I find dogmatic thinking and rigid stances very disturbing. (nt) cbayer Mar 2014 #52

Well, except when they're *your* dogmatic thinking and rigid stances. trotsky Mar 2014 #190

Proof only applies to math. AlbertCat Mar 2014 #163

Ah, AlbertCat! That's so cute, you trying to teach me about science and stuff. cbayer Mar 2014 #165

trying to teach me about science and stuff. AlbertCat Mar 2014 #187

That's because I'm scientifically illiterate. cbayer Mar 2014 #188

LOL. pinto Mar 2014 #189

He really got me on that one! cbayer Mar 2014 #191

Well yeah, he kinda did. trotsky Mar 2014 #192

Tides come in tides go out. You can't explain that. pokerfan Mar 2014 #58

Please, please, please tell me that he didn't actually say that! cbayer Mar 2014 #65

I could but I would be lying pokerfan Mar 2014 #73

And we are worried about the religious right not getting evolution? cbayer Mar 2014 #74

I would rather say I don't know LostOne4Ever Mar 2014 #23

It may have looked silly to them at the time, but... TreasonousBastard Mar 2014 #33

Yes. I could also set about trying to understand eclipses. AtheistCrusader Mar 2014 #39

"that's the best they could do." Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #56

On the contrary, science has a very good, in-depth idea of "how we got here." stopbush Mar 2014 #83

There is no way to prove or disprove that "God" is... TreasonousBastard Mar 2014 #89

Agreed. It's not a 50-50 proposition that god exists and was involved in creation. stopbush Mar 2014 #93

How do you figure that fairies and werewolves have a better chance of being real? cbayer Mar 2014 #96

What conceit allows you to believe that god has a better chance of existing than fairies stopbush Mar 2014 #111

faeries and werewolves are far less ridiculous. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #115

What conceit allows you to believe that they are equally possible? cbayer Mar 2014 #117

No Lordquinton Mar 2014 #18

Actually, it blends them into two stories BillStein Mar 2014 #92

Aren't you more or less LostOne4Ever Mar 2014 #22

Science attempts to show whether something is true. Religion attempts to show why something is true. stopbush Mar 2014 #86

An almost perfect example of scientism -- LTX Mar 2014 #172

How so? Without an explanation, you're engaging in drive-by posting. stopbush Mar 2014 #173

It is dreadfully slippery LTX Mar 2014 #183

You're confusing "truth" with what is "true." stopbush Mar 2014 #184

Sophistry. n/t LTX Mar 2014 #186

I meant to note the similarities, not equate them. Did it poorly, but some good discussion's ensued. pinto Mar 2014 #185

Sure I guess. trotsky Mar 2014 #24

Almost by definition the Big Bang is the Genesis of the universe goldent Mar 2014 #25

The Big Bang wasn't a religious concept. n/t trotsky Mar 2014 #28

The concept expressed in Genesis was that the universe had a beginning. goldent Mar 2014 #75

Oh sweet Jesus. Goblinmonger Mar 2014 #77

Hey, I didn't say Genesis had exclusive rights to the concept that the goldent Mar 2014 #78

I repeat, the Big Bang was not a religious concept. trotsky Mar 2014 #90

No. Feral Child Mar 2014 #26

No. Iggo Mar 2014 #29

genesis is really about the dawn of human civilization unblock Mar 2014 #30

Which "In the Beginning"? edhopper Mar 2014 #31

Probably. jeepnstein Mar 2014 #40

"Non-believers who have anger directed towards the Church" Act_of_Reparation Mar 2014 #41

Not so much these days. jeepnstein Mar 2014 #42

How does that poison the well? cbayer Mar 2014 #43

Because it is a perfect example of poisoning the well. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2014 #47

I didn't read her post as saying there was no reason to listen to them, cbayer Mar 2014 #49

Fascinating discussion going on right now on "Forum" on exactly this subject. cbayer Mar 2014 #44

That's some rally the troops code language there, isn't it? Goblinmonger Mar 2014 #53

Just coming back in here. Perhaps I should clarify - what strikes me is the parallel. pinto Mar 2014 #54

Problem I have is this. Maybe I can make it more clear. Goblinmonger Mar 2014 #55

See your points. And largely agree. Lots of creation stories in different cultures. pinto Mar 2014 #57

Maybe! Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #76

The Priest that came up with the Big Bang theory mmonk Mar 2014 #91

No CFLDem Mar 2014 #102

If it was, "God" would have said so. tridim Mar 2014 #103

No. Gore1FL Mar 2014 #106

If we live in a multiverse, and it's looking more likely that we are... Kablooie Mar 2014 #107

I think so Prophet 451 Mar 2014 #157