Religion

LostOne4Ever

(9,768 posts)

92. Me?

Mon Mar 24, 2014, 08:29 PM

Mar 2014

I would like strong and consistent support for the separation of church and state. For the majority of DU believers I think I already got that.

There are others, however, who are not so consistent or very caring for that principle. The WTC cross thread in GD (as opposed to the one here) the OP refused to ever admit that all AA really wanted was a plaque that they were willing to pay for, despite many posters replying to him/her telling him/her exactly that.

That same poster consistently tried to frame the debate as mean non-believers trying to take away other peoples symbol of hope. Similarly, there was another thread (can't remember the forum) where they were talking about another memorial cross somewhere else where another poster showed a complete disdain for this principle.

I was not here for the entire Michael Newdow episode, but I have a feeling that there were some here who were less than supportive. I see things like "one nation under god" and "in god we trust" as dangerous violations of that principle that are used REPEATEDLY by the rightwing to try and justify further incursions of their religion into our government.

Let us not forget that a fairly Modern US president said the following:

[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]George H. W. Bush[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

There is an effort by the RW to associate patriotism with faith in god in this country. And not just any god, but a conservative evangelical protestant god who hates women, gays, and liberals. This effort has to be rigorously opposed. But instead when Newdow took his case to court 77% of LIBERALS were opposed to him. Seventy seven percent. Liberals. Defenders of the separation of church and state.

That number should never have been that high. Ever.

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What do DU Atheists want of DU believers? [View all] el_bryanto Mar 2014 OP

Cash. nt ZombieHorde Mar 2014 #1

that works. Plus I could use some yard work. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #15

I don't think anyone cares if you stop your practice of religion 2pooped2pop Mar 2014 #2

In general or specifically here in a forum designed to talk about religion? el_bryanto Mar 2014 #3

In general 2pooped2pop Mar 2014 #4

Well it depends on the issue I suppose el_bryanto Mar 2014 #13

u r right. I would agree with your statement 2pooped2pop Mar 2014 #17

Believe that all you want. Don't codify it into law, because there are other Christians who disagree Heddi Mar 2014 #71

+1. Nt PassingFair Mar 2014 #99

You sir can have all my Internets. Alittleliberal Mar 2014 #102

well said. eom ellenfl Mar 2014 #133

... trotsky Mar 2014 #151

"Keep religion ...out of my face" demwing Mar 2014 #158

Oh, snap! trotsky Mar 2014 #166

I wonder about that also goldent Mar 2014 #191

anti-theist here! Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #159

Your post made me think a lot AleksS Mar 2014 #103

I do more or less agree with you on this - particularly when it comes to el_bryanto Mar 2014 #104

I'm a utilitarian/end state guy qazplm Mar 2014 #205

Agree with you. Well said. cbayer Mar 2014 #207

The fatal flaw in your position, of course, trotsky Mar 2014 #214

That's why there might be personal motivations for political action el_bryanto Mar 2014 #217

Oh, we agree they shouldn't... trotsky Mar 2014 #218

I should be clear i suppose el_bryanto Mar 2014 #219

Which is the big problem skepticscott Mar 2014 #220

If you could take two different drugs skepticscott Mar 2014 #216

In general, who are the "we" that you speak for? /nt demwing Mar 2014 #134

me and judging from this post, a lot of others feel the same way 2pooped2pop Mar 2014 #145

I thought we were speaking in generalities demwing Mar 2014 #152

????? 2pooped2pop Mar 2014 #155

It's very pertinent demwing Mar 2014 #164

I am speaking for myself and my spouse that makes a we and you are nitpicking 2pooped2pop Mar 2014 #170

Funny matt819 Mar 2014 #177

that's what I think about believers 2pooped2pop Mar 2014 #178

Feel free to practice your religion privately, on in discussion forums intended for that purpose. Scuba Mar 2014 #5

Ok - do you feel that DU Believers have a habit of jamming their religion into politics? el_bryanto Mar 2014 #6

No, I don't think DUers are often "jamming religion into politics" but do often react .... Scuba Mar 2014 #7

In other words, a story will come out about someone jamming religion into politics el_bryanto Mar 2014 #9

The issue is Republicans jamming their religion into politics and government. longship Mar 2014 #8

Thank you for clarifying the issue.. whathehell Mar 2014 #59

I am glad that Pastors discuss politics and I will tell you why yeoman6987 Mar 2014 #52

Do you have statistics on a big majority of churches being Democratic? el_bryanto Mar 2014 #54

Link below. yeoman6987 Mar 2014 #61

This atheist DUer doesn't give a rat's ass what religion people want to believe. arcane1 Mar 2014 #10

Thank you for responding. I'm not sure what one would do with a rat's ass anyway. nt el_bryanto Mar 2014 #11

Animal sacrifices to a Cat god, I suppose. arcane1 Mar 2014 #12

All cats are gods. Common Sense Party Mar 2014 #27

Our cats catch and eat rats and mice TexasProgresive Mar 2014 #43

Hmm... perhaps the expression should be "I don't leave a rat's ass"? arcane1 Mar 2014 #44

Just has a thought TexasProgresive Mar 2014 #48

LMAO I would put nothing past them arcane1 Mar 2014 #51

Don't confuse a forceful intellectual discussion edhopper Mar 2014 #14

Thank you for that thoughtful response el_bryanto Mar 2014 #19

I might be mistaken edhopper Mar 2014 #23

Help us to end religion-related deaths Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #37

What steps should I do to accomplish that? nt el_bryanto Mar 2014 #38

How about gay rights, women's right to control their own bodies, believing that sinkingfeeling Mar 2014 #16

That's a beauty you made there Goblinmonger Mar 2014 #18

I'm serious - but I guess I understand where you are coming from. nt el_bryanto Mar 2014 #20

"Other than stopping our practice of religion" Goblinmonger Mar 2014 #24

OK Changed it. el_bryanto Mar 2014 #25

Appreciate that. Goblinmonger Mar 2014 #29

I guess i should have read that - one of my favorite books is The Godless Constitution el_bryanto Mar 2014 #32

The Godless Constitution is a great read. Goblinmonger Mar 2014 #42

Define 'public sphere'. Leontius Mar 2014 #87

government Goblinmonger Mar 2014 #97

Well McDonald's is public my kitchen is private neither one is government Leontius Mar 2014 #114

McDonald's and the malls are private property Mariana Mar 2014 #117

I just want to point out el_bryanto Mar 2014 #187

Why do you think atheists want support from the religious sector? procon Mar 2014 #21

This is a DU Religion forum el_bryanto Mar 2014 #22

On that question edhopper Mar 2014 #28

I would 100% agree with that. nt el_bryanto Mar 2014 #33

Tolerance. Iggo Mar 2014 #26

And in what ways are DU Believers Intolerant? Or how could we be more tolerant? nt el_bryanto Mar 2014 #31

Huh? Iggo Mar 2014 #41

Ah - sorry about that. I misread where the joke was. NT el_bryanto Mar 2014 #45

Not putting words in our mouths would be a start. Warpy Mar 2014 #30

That last bit is hard to respond to in a way - just because what triggered this el_bryanto Mar 2014 #34

I wouldn't put DU believers into the "kill all unbelievers" category Warpy Mar 2014 #35

I went and read that particular exchange edhopper Mar 2014 #46

Except that the argument being advanced in that post is that beliving in spirits (demons and angels) el_bryanto Mar 2014 #49

Believing in demons that possess people, including some mentally ill people skepticscott Mar 2014 #56

I wonder who you could be referring to here, but I was more interested in what Edhopper has to say el_bryanto Mar 2014 #58

You asked a question, didn't you? skepticscott Mar 2014 #65

So if one believes in one supernatural being, it follows that one believes in them all el_bryanto Mar 2014 #68

It would be, if that was what I'd said, or even implied. skepticscott Mar 2014 #94

Thank you. phil89 Mar 2014 #202

I want them to be rational in all parts of their lives/beliefs and not be part of an oppressive phil89 Mar 2014 #203

"Shintoist or Hindu more ludicrous than a Christian "? Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #63

No I would not say that. And was responding to the larger question of demons. edhopper Mar 2014 #66

Why should they expect - or receive - anything different from any other DU member? rug Mar 2014 #36

Everybody has to figure out what works best for them el_bryanto Mar 2014 #39

You are assume good motives and an openness to ideas. rug Mar 2014 #40

If you don't assume that - in general I mean - why bother posting here? el_bryanto Mar 2014 #81

I'm driven by the evidence. For the rest, I do. rug Mar 2014 #83

I'm not an atheist and I refuse to take up this question TexasProgresive Mar 2014 #47

It does happen on occasion. I've had a post locked, but in fairness I did call a name, so it was el_bryanto Mar 2014 #50

You've never seen it, so it doesn't happen. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2014 #53

lolz +1 JNelson6563 Mar 2014 #106

There have been atheists who have had posts locked here. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #60

Yeah, me as well TexasProgresive Mar 2014 #62

Honoring the 11th commandment. Democracyinkind Mar 2014 #55

Opposition to the Religous Right, basically LeftishBrit Mar 2014 #57

I like respect and not to be told I believe in a fairytale. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #64

The first has to be earned, the second you're stuck with. mr blur Mar 2014 #67

No I don't feel persecuted and if you read my posts here you would know I don't think believers are hrmjustin Mar 2014 #69

Respect is a given. Disrespect is what's earned, as that post once again demonstrates. rug Mar 2014 #75

Absolutely wrong, as usual. But you're amusing, as usual. Sadly, no-one cares what you think. mr blur Mar 2014 #88

That was, as usual, pointless. Thanks again for demonstrating how accurate that post was. rug Mar 2014 #89

Do you ever have a kind word to say to anyone here? cbayer Mar 2014 #77

He's said plenty of kind words to plenty of people Heddi Mar 2014 #79

when did you start identifying as an Atheist? Since this is a question directed towards Atheists.... Heddi Mar 2014 #70

Thank you Heddi but I don't need your permission to post here. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #72

No, you don't, but I'm just taking cues from you Heddi Mar 2014 #73

Well you can always post it. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #74

I'm glad you enjoyed them Heddi Mar 2014 #78

My mistake for thinking that you were going to be polite. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #80

Who's not being polite?? Heddi Mar 2014 #82

Calling me Gomer Pyle in the AA room was an insult. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #84

well we can't point to the insulting things you said because you self-deleted Heddi Mar 2014 #85

What did I say thst was nasty to you? hrmjustin Mar 2014 #86

Too bad for you that this is an open group. It changes one's view of relevance. rug Mar 2014 #76

I want believers to eventually be convinced... MellowDem Mar 2014 #90

I understand that - and i appreciate your willingness to own your anti-theism el_bryanto Mar 2014 #105

That's all I want on the religion forum... MellowDem Mar 2014 #118

That's fair enough - it does seem though that our conversations would serve no purpose el_bryanto Mar 2014 #119

If a person comes to a discussion forum... MellowDem Mar 2014 #121

I would change my mind on plenty of issues, just not this one. el_bryanto Mar 2014 #124

It's not disdain to point out a close minded position... MellowDem Mar 2014 #141

AH - I should clarify - by disdain I didn't mean you and I shouldn't have mentioned it there. el_bryanto Mar 2014 #143

Personal experiences being interpreted to be god... MellowDem Mar 2014 #146

I doubt that discussion could convince me - el_bryanto Mar 2014 #147

So whatever your experience was... MellowDem Mar 2014 #163

In my opinion yes. el_bryanto Mar 2014 #167

I think it's a lot less likely based on the evidence we have... MellowDem Mar 2014 #180

I suppose that would be the context of the experience el_bryanto Mar 2014 #181

Which is where confirmation bias comes in... MellowDem Mar 2014 #182

Well another possiblity is that God is much larger than we are and we only really get a glimpse of el_bryanto Mar 2014 #183

That's another possibility... MellowDem Mar 2014 #184

Either hypothesis is difficult to prove el_bryanto Mar 2014 #186

Do you have the intent to never change your mind no matter what? rug Mar 2014 #148

No, if someone provides good evidence of god... MellowDem Mar 2014 #162

Your assertions go way, way beyond that. rug Mar 2014 #175

No they don't... MellowDem Mar 2014 #179

What about Ayn Rand devotees and other conservative atheists? Htom Sirveaux Mar 2014 #120

No... MellowDem Mar 2014 #122

Are you planning to use all that evidence and logic to Htom Sirveaux Mar 2014 #123

Yes actually... MellowDem Mar 2014 #142

What's the argument for tax exempt status Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2014 #91

Me? LostOne4Ever Mar 2014 #92

Stop lending legitimacy skepticscott Mar 2014 #93

How would I continue to be a religious person under those constraints? el_bryanto Mar 2014 #96

You noticed that too. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #98

honestly, you can't. Religiousness is, in my opinion, either a thoughtless or dishonest position. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #107

Is it fair to infer from that that you believe that religious people are either thoughtless el_bryanto Mar 2014 #108

no that is exactly what I said. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #110

Thank you - you'll understand if I don't agree with that assessment el_bryanto Mar 2014 #111

I consider self-deception a form of dishonesty. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #112

And again, I hope you'll understand if I disagree with that assessment. nt el_bryanto Mar 2014 #113

sure, go ahead live an unexamined life. It's your life. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #125

I'm not living an unexamined life. I've examined it plenty. I just haven't come to the same el_bryanto Mar 2014 #126

That's a pretty silly statement qazplm Mar 2014 #206

By thoughtless I mean "unconsidered" or Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #209

your guess is likely wrong qazplm Mar 2014 #210

Yeah, you are missing the part where I said that unexamined religiousity was unique. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #211

that's my point qazplm Mar 2014 #212

I said their religiousity was thoughtless. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #213

yeah, no qazplm Mar 2014 #215

Oh! Well thanks for your honest opinion. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #109

Does one HAVE to believe in things in the absence of evidence skepticscott Mar 2014 #116

In order for me to continue being religious I have to believe in a supernatural or spirtual world el_bryanto Mar 2014 #137

I'm curious: where do you draw the line on believing in a spiritual world? stopbush Mar 2014 #157

Hmmmmm el_bryanto Mar 2014 #161

In the first place, supernatural and "spiritual" skepticscott Mar 2014 #185

I really must get under your skin to get this kind of constant reaction el_bryanto Mar 2014 #188

And yet again, you make things up about what I said. skepticscott Mar 2014 #189

I don't feel like I made up anything. el_bryanto Mar 2014 #190

Try again skepticscott Mar 2014 #192

If you don't understand what's unreasonable about "You need to stop believing in a literal God" el_bryanto Mar 2014 #193

Oh, the, I'm right, and you just don't get it, tactic? skepticscott Mar 2014 #195

Except that anybody with reading comprehension can read up and see that's exactly what you asked el_bryanto Mar 2014 #196

Oh for pity's sake skepticscott Mar 2014 #198

At any rate I'm taking a drastic step and putting you on ignore el_bryanto Mar 2014 #197

So was that too challenging a question? skepticscott Mar 2014 #136

I think that many people on this website , both religious and atheist, do take me seriously. el_bryanto Mar 2014 #138

Which is still not an answer skepticscott Mar 2014 #139

I did respond above. #137. nt el_bryanto Mar 2014 #140

Hmmm, what do I want, uriel1972 Mar 2014 #95

Answers. They won't even tell me what they believe in, when I ask. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2014 #100

I will answer your questions as best I can. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #101

I think we'd all like respect - that is what it comes down to goldent Mar 2014 #129

I suppose more specifically what I want is exactly what I want of other atheists; people with varied LeftishBrit Mar 2014 #115

I'm thinking that most people here like an argument better than cooperation Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #127

This refers to the exorcism issues that have been brought up? el_bryanto Mar 2014 #128

Of course they do skepticscott Mar 2014 #135

Or take a take a break from here to bash believers in a safe haven. rug Mar 2014 #149

I have had a few interesting discussions with other DU members Peacetrain Mar 2014 #130

I think the vast majority of DU atheists want the same thing the vast majority of DU believers want. cbayer Mar 2014 #131

You never seem to take your own advice skepticscott Mar 2014 #132

These are the things I'd like from DU Believers and Supporters of Religion Heddi Mar 2014 #144

You make excellent points top to bottom, Heddi. trotsky Mar 2014 #150

Strawman. rug Mar 2014 #154

Thank you for responding so thoroughly. el_bryanto Mar 2014 #165

I want believers to Defend Christ from the abuses of the evangelicals. peacebird Mar 2014 #153

Yes, but you realize that the evangelicals believe they are... trotsky Mar 2014 #160

Quite honestly, it would be nice if the Xians around here became more familiar with the Bible stopbush Mar 2014 #156

Oh, hogwash. You see it as a gun fight? That explains a lot cbayer Mar 2014 #168

Actually, cbayer... trotsky Mar 2014 #169

And here I thought you were done with me. stopbush Mar 2014 #171

Lol. I was done with you yesterday when you started personally attacking me. cbayer Mar 2014 #172

If I have ever personally attacked you, I apologize. stopbush Mar 2014 #173

I'll let you know if it happens again. cbayer Mar 2014 #174

It's more like bringing a thought to a spitting contest. rug Mar 2014 #176

Your response seems most consistent with what I see in this Forum goldent Mar 2014 #194

Bother? No, we just find hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance amusing skepticscott Mar 2014 #199

I really don't care if your beliefs are consistent with the Bible or Catholic dogma. stopbush Mar 2014 #200

Oh, they have a clue. They've just picked different cherries than you have, cbayer Mar 2014 #208

nothing nt Deep13 Mar 2014 #201

nothing. nt DesertFlower Mar 2014 #204