Religion

johnlucas

(1,250 posts)

132. You know sports riots exist, right?

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 02:19 PM

Mar 2014

You can dismiss what I say as babbling but that doesn't make your opinion fact.

I'm not religious so you can't say I'm a religion apologist.
ANYTHING can develop into the madness you saw Michael Brea exhibit.
ANY interest.
Demonizing religion ain't gonna solve your problem because if it ain't organized religion it'll be something else.

The problem as always is the Man In The Mirror.
There are no monsters "out there".
The monster has always been INSIDE.
Anybody has the potential to turn out just like that fool did if the right switches are pushed.

That's why Hitler paranoia exists. Any society can fall into that kind of madness given the right conditions.
That's how the Salem witch hunts got started, how the McCarthy paranoia got started, how the Inqusition got started, how the Crusades got started.
Some people recognize just how horrifyingly easy it is to lose grip & lash out against anything they believe could cause it.
You see parallels & start accusing people of becoming Hitler.

That's the motivation behind cleanhippie's post.
He believes he's providing an antidote to religious madness by posting this story as a cautionary tale.
Religious madness DOES exist but it's far from the only madness & is also not the cause of it.
It's one of many vehicles that madness travels in.
The home of that madness is within the human mind itself.

The fact that people have riots when their sports team wins or loses shows it is only a matter of degree.
The theme is the same.

I got no problem with people exposing religious madness.
It is DEFINITELY one part of the problem.
But it is not the source of the problem.
And if you wanna solve problems, you have to deal with the source not the symptoms.

The boogeyman is us & HAS ALWAYS BEEN us.
When we can deal with that reality, then maybe we can make some significant progress with the situation.

Bottom Line: You ain't gonna get rid of murderous insanity by shutting down religion.
John Lucas

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'I didn't kill her. I killed the demon inside her' - Religious delusion kills again. [View all] cleanhippie Mar 2014 OP

4 year old flame bait, powered by cleanhippie. rug Mar 2014 #1

This message was self-deleted by its author hrmjustin Mar 2014 #2

This is 4 years old. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #3

And? cleanhippie Mar 2014 #4

Oh lord! hrmjustin Mar 2014 #5

There you go again! cleanhippie Mar 2014 #6

You should ket oeople know your article is 4 years old in the op. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #7

I did. cleanhippie Mar 2014 #8

Ok. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #9

You edited it to add this: rug Mar 2014 #10

So what is your conclusion from this? hrmjustin Mar 2014 #11

Insanity/murderousness seems to take on a religious character often. Or vice-versa. Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #16

And how do you deal with this? hrmjustin Mar 2014 #18

We start by talking openly about it, like we are doing here. cleanhippie Mar 2014 #22

But this is not of religion he has a mental issue. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #24

A mental issue strangely corrolated to Religious belief Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #25

But that is not religions fault that his illness manifested itself this way. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #26

That's a subject that remains to be seen Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #27

Really? Can religion make you mentally ill? hrmjustin Mar 2014 #29

That's the matter we are interested in determining here, in an open-minded way Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #31

You do realize if he did not hear of religion he still could have done these things. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #34

"Would have" is sheer speculation. Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #37

Where is the guy now? hrmjustin Mar 2014 #39

Hmm... Iggo Mar 2014 #69

Ah! hrmjustin Mar 2014 #70

"I was doing the work of God" is not religion? cleanhippie Mar 2014 #30

Would you answer my question I asked you? hrmjustin Mar 2014 #32

Religion had nothing to do with this? cleanhippie Mar 2014 #36

Did religion make him ill? hrmjustin Mar 2014 #38

Religion fueled his illness. cleanhippie Mar 2014 #41

There is nothing that can be done about this. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #43

You're making a fundamental mistake here... Act_of_Reparation Mar 2014 #62

So what is your solution? hrmjustin Mar 2014 #63

That's above my pay grade (n/t) Act_of_Reparation Mar 2014 #65

So Many? How many are killed each year by their religious parents? nt el_bryanto Mar 2014 #67

More than zero, it would seem (n/t) Act_of_Reparation Mar 2014 #68

He won't. He can't let facts interfere with his narrative. rug Mar 2014 #44

I just don't get this. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #45

Perseverance is also a symptom of mental illness. rug Mar 2014 #46

Thanks for the info. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #47

An institution for mentally ill people that did what some call crimes? Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #49

Ok well lets assume it triggered him off. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #50

Except warning people to avoid the trigger Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #51

or take their meds properly hrmjustin Mar 2014 #53

Both are helpful. But if he'd seen it intellectually in time? Less need for meds. And maybe ... Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #55

With what he had you need meds I think. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #56

That's what we're trying to determine here. Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #59

Well we know what he has. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #60

Whats not to get? cleanhippie Mar 2014 #52

I see it just fine. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #54

Maybe we can FIND the answer Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #57

How would you put this in action in real life. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #58

Actually, I here offer thanks to DU for providing part of the answer to Mental Delusion/Illness Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #97

We speak out plenty. maybe you're just not listening enough. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #105

You mean "you're"? Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #106

Yes thamk you. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #107

I think the 'and' part is because you are posting this Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2014 #35

Thank you for sharing. el_bryanto Mar 2014 #12

The point is that the largest and oldest christian institution Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #13

Are you sure that's Cleanhippies point? el_bryanto Mar 2014 #14

The RCC is one example. yes really religion should stop propagating dangerous woo. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #15

It depends on your definition of dangerous woo. el_bryanto Mar 2014 #20

So you disagree and think it is fine that religion continues to Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #28

I kind of specifically said I don't believe in exorcism. And I don't. el_bryanto Mar 2014 #33

All woo can be dangerous. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2014 #40

That's pretty accurate i believe el_bryanto Mar 2014 #42

In a nutshell skepticscott Mar 2014 #66

And here is yet another example skepticscott Mar 2014 #61

Thank you for stating your position so clearly el_bryanto Mar 2014 #64

The Bible warns about "false" and evil "spirits" that appear to be good and from God Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #99

I'm not sure what your point is here el_bryanto Mar 2014 #101

Sounds about right. My point though would be that even spiritual Christianity has problems Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #108

I think those are good warnings; anything if carried to extremes can be problematic el_bryanto Mar 2014 #111

He did think god talked to him. cleanhippie Mar 2014 #17

ehere is he now? hrmjustin Mar 2014 #19

Where are all the other people EvilAL Mar 2014 #73

If you hear voices seek medical attention. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #75

I see. EvilAL Mar 2014 #76

No they heard the Holy Spirit. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #77

aaah.. How convenient. EvilAL Mar 2014 #78

Yes pretty much. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #79

Wow, it's just that simple. EvilAL Mar 2014 #80

Well we disagree. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #82

Yeah, no shit. EvilAL Mar 2014 #83

I have faith in that the events of the NT happened. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #88

Missed that part - yes there it is el_bryanto Mar 2014 #23

"'I was doing the work of God,' he said. " Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #21

Thanks to rug for finding this. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #48

This does not clear up the matter; it's not either/or Religious Delusion v. Mental Illness Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #98

M aybe your wrong. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #104

Most of the Psychology articles we looked at in "Religion=Delusion" confirm what I'm saying Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #109

It's not religions fault. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #110

Psychiatric literature, here, is suggesting it might BE religion's fault Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #112

Just another attempt to smear and get rid of religion. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #113

If you're going to speak on mental illness, isn't testimony of professional psychiatrists relevant? Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #114

Yeah ok. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #115

For one thing, the not responsible defense is a defense, not a plea bargain. rug Mar 2014 #124

If one were to take the trouble okasha Mar 2014 #71

. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #72

When someone makes the claim that religion causes brain tumors and diabetes, you'll have a point cleanhippie Mar 2014 #74

Analogy has never been your strong suit. rug Mar 2014 #86

But not giving a crap what you think is. cleanhippie Mar 2014 #89

It's not unusual to disregard uncomfortable truths. rug Mar 2014 #90

I took the trouble to earn a degree in the subject... Act_of_Reparation Mar 2014 #81

I donT think the Natioal Institute of Mental Health okasha Mar 2014 #84

I think anything worded as so amateurs can understand it is amateurish. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2014 #85

Religionists here who keep claiming that skepticscott Mar 2014 #93

What bizarre logic. rug Mar 2014 #94

Interesting. Your post title okasha Mar 2014 #95

Beyond your vague general source, the professional articles we cited clearly disagree with you Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #102

As long as you're digging that hole, let me hand you a shovel: Act_of_Reparation Mar 2014 #116

Are you a practicing clinician? okasha Mar 2014 #123

Do you understand academic articles? You've COMPLETELY misread them Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #128

Are YOU? Act_of_Reparation Mar 2014 #144

Translation: okasha Mar 2014 #147

Are the cases of religious filicide quoted in our cited psychological journal also anecdotal? Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #153

"Religious delusion kills again." rug Mar 2014 #87

An idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted struggle4progress Mar 2014 #91

I am compelled by the evidence to agree. rug Mar 2014 #92

So when one professional psychologist after another links religion to mental illness,even as a cause Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #103

Here are the first few openly-available results for the search struggle4progress Mar 2014 #120

Even our most positive reports are indecisive. 1) The most pro-religion source is just an MA thesis? Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #121

Your claim in #103 was "one professional psychologist after another links religion to mental illness struggle4progress Mar 2014 #122

Freud and many psychologists ... said religion is a delusion (Dr. Pierre, Jour. Psych. Prac. 2001?) Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #126

I think psychologists and psychiatrists are entitled to opinions, like everyone else struggle4progress Mar 2014 #135

Psychologists have opinions. But professional opinions expressed in refereed journals.... Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #139

Nonsense. Mental illness kills again; religion has nothing whatsoever to do with it. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2014 #96

Very clearly stated. Unfortunately, we've cited Psychiatric lit which directly contradicts you Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #100

A delusion involving God, the bible, saints and demons is not a 'religious delusion'? muriel_volestrangler Mar 2014 #117

Not only nonsense... cleanhippie Mar 2014 #118

You missed what he typed. I'll repeat it. rug Mar 2014 #125

We've cited many psychologists who say 1) "delusion" often takes religious form Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #127

Your appeal to authority, besides being a fallacy, is inaccurate. rug Mar 2014 #130

Vs. your bald appeal to your own authority, offering no proofs? Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #138

Lol! You are quite entertaining. I'm glad you signed up. rug Mar 2014 #140

It is the dishonest circular argument Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #129

The common denominator is ALWAYS people johnlucas Mar 2014 #119

Tell you what skepticscott Mar 2014 #131

You know sports riots exist, right? johnlucas Mar 2014 #132

I'm sorry, did someone actually propose that by "shutting down religion," we could... trotsky Mar 2014 #133

Are the people participating in sports riots skepticscott Mar 2014 #134

My bottom line is made of bricks not straw. Sorry Big Bad Wolf. johnlucas Mar 2014 #136

Well done. Very well done. trotsky Mar 2014 #137

You're out of gas. Refuel by absorbing my words. johnlucas Mar 2014 #141

I think you are missing the point el_bryanto Mar 2014 #142

But here's the thing. You can't excise religion from humanity. johnlucas Mar 2014 #143

As are you, it seems. trotsky Mar 2014 #146

I don't need to refute your argument. trotsky Mar 2014 #145

That's not precisely what i said el_bryanto Mar 2014 #148

You precisely used the word "eliminate." trotsky Mar 2014 #149

Ah I see the difficulty - i'll revise my post el_bryanto Mar 2014 #150

Wow, you should probably express your disagreement with that person! n/t trotsky Mar 2014 #151

Now you're down to just babbling skepticscott Mar 2014 #152