Religion

LTX

(1,020 posts)

33. I think one of the most interesting (and historically important) roles of "churches"

Thu Apr 17, 2014, 07:04 AM

Apr 2014

has been their use as (for want of a better descriptor) social clubs. I think you are correct that habit can be a predominant factor in religious belief, but the nature of the "habit" often seems to be the simple need for social interaction. I think (based only on anecdotal evidence) that liberal or progressive churches often provide like-minded liberals with a social network and glue that is associated with the titular theology only by the thinnest veneer. Just such a church (Lutheran by title) is in my neighborhood. I have been invited to many overtly political and simply social neighborhood events there, and I honestly could not tell you what the religious beliefs of any of the attendees was. Other than the traditional trappings of the nave, it could just as well be the church of the Spaghetti Monster.

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Why Coming Out as an Atheist May Be the Most Powerful Way to Combat Religion [View all] MellowDem Apr 2014 OP

It's conflatng atheism with an intent to "Combat Religion". rug Apr 2014 #1

Where? MellowDem Apr 2014 #3

"Coming Out as an Atheist May Be the Most Powerful Way to Combat Religion" rug Apr 2014 #5

Nowhere does that conflate atheism with an intent to combat religion... MellowDem Apr 2014 #6

"The Most Powerful Way to Combat Religion May Be Coming Out as an Atheist." rug Apr 2014 #8

And it still doesn't conflate atheism... MellowDem Apr 2014 #10

Of course it does. You "combat" religion with secularism, not atheism. rug Apr 2014 #13

It does make no claims... MellowDem Apr 2014 #20

Then a claim that atheism combats religion is nonsense. rug Apr 2014 #22

The claim is that coming out as atheist combats religion MellowDem Apr 2014 #23

Because . . . . rug Apr 2014 #24

because... MellowDem Apr 2014 #28

Except announcing one's atheism does not deny "social consent" to relgion. rug Apr 2014 #29

Have you read the book? AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #47

No, it camw out last month. Have you? rug Apr 2014 #48

I have not. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #50

That must still sting. rug Apr 2014 #52

Not at all. There is simplicity in consistency that appeals to me. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #53

There is a difference. I pointed out a problem with its premise. Whereas you posted: rug Apr 2014 #56

When you objected, I clarified. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #61

I would have said chervilant Apr 2014 #59

Um no. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #42

That assumes that atheism, per se, "combats religion". It doesn't. rug Apr 2014 #49

By 'combats religion' I read that to mean AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #51

Again, there's nothing about atheism that compels "de-converting people from religion". rug Apr 2014 #54

Of course. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #55

Therefore, the premise of the book is false. rug Apr 2014 #57

Is it? AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #60

In your, NSHO Lordquinton Apr 2014 #130

so spreading the atheist word is ok Niceguy1 Apr 2014 #2

They aren't equal... MellowDem Apr 2014 #4

they are both persnal beliefs Niceguy1 Apr 2014 #7

Who said it was inherently evil to believe a certain way? MellowDem Apr 2014 #9

faith iant politics Niceguy1 Apr 2014 #14

Faith informs politics skepticscott Apr 2014 #16

decilas advocate. .... Niceguy1 Apr 2014 #25

It's not about allowing people to form opinions skepticscott Apr 2014 #26

What skepticscott is apparently trying to say Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #35

Don't hurt yourself, Stretch. Best let me explain. skepticscott Apr 2014 #39

In other words, as I said Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #72

As I said, don't hurt yourself thinking about it too much skepticscott Apr 2014 #92

I asked you if I had stated what you said correctly, and you repeated it in slightly different words Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #141

My exact words were right there skepticscott Apr 2014 #143

Yes, they were Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #149

Religion engages in politics... MellowDem Apr 2014 #21

So believing in God is bad? Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #36

Not "bad"... MellowDem Apr 2014 #64

In other words, "bad" Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #68

As in not "evil" MellowDem Apr 2014 #71

I agree that there is a lot of potential harm in believing false things, cbayer Apr 2014 #79

Whether religion is only a negative force... MellowDem Apr 2014 #83

I've read this post half a dozen times and I still have no idea what it means. cbayer Apr 2014 #88

Your conflating opinions on questions with no objective answer... MellowDem Apr 2014 #90

Some of us think that the truth should be superior skepticscott Apr 2014 #12

But we believers think that we hold to the truth Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #37

When someone's "truth" involves demonstrable falsehoods and nonsense skepticscott Apr 2014 #40

Because you can't demonstrate any evidence for your incredible claims. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #43

But "God does not exist" is also an extraordinary claim Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #70

Is saying "Unicorns don't exist" an extraordinary claim? immoderate Apr 2014 #76

Ah, but I say 'I do not believe god exists.' AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #85

Zeus does not exist. JNelson6563 Apr 2014 #106

silence -- apparently only claiming that the christian deity does not exist Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #113

apparently only claiming that the christian deity does not exist AlbertCat Apr 2014 #136

I assume you either still believe that Santa Claus exists skepticscott Apr 2014 #117

That's the sort of thing that gets you atheists disliked by believers: Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #142

You're right, actually skepticscott Apr 2014 #144

Thank you for that unabashed piece of atheist bigotry Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #148

And I can always count on you skepticscott Apr 2014 #157

This message was self-deleted by its author LTX Apr 2014 #162

Well, when you say bigoted things, Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #167

Do you honestly think that comparing your god to Santa Claus is "bigotry"? trotsky Apr 2014 #169

It's more stupidity than bigotry. rug Apr 2014 #172

Really Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #174

That comparison is happening in your own mind only, FA. trotsky Apr 2014 #176

Skepticscott was the one making the comparison between God and Santa Claus, not me Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #179

That would be falsely framing Skeptiscott's statement/claim. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #185

Bingo. n/t trotsky Apr 2014 #187

Sorry if you don't like the fact skepticscott Apr 2014 #189

And the best part is AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #193

Perhaps a better example than Santa Clause xfundy Apr 2014 #204

Post removed Post removed Apr 2014 #205

Well, it seems our friend crashed and burned. AGAIN! cleanhippie Apr 2014 #210

It's hard not to skepticscott Apr 2014 #212

How many hides is that now for him? cleanhippie Apr 2014 #213

Not likely skepticscott Apr 2014 #214

Wow, he now has as many hidden posts as you. rug Apr 2014 #215

My hide count is equal to the actual number of supernatural gods that exist. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #216

That would be super-convenient for you, wouldn't it? AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #265

The notion that humans are "born atheists" LTX Apr 2014 #262

Attractive and EASILY ACQUIRED. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #264

That's actually a good way to succinctly put it -- LTX Apr 2014 #266

Your conclusory propositions about "unfalsifiable claims" being bad is scientism on steroids. LTX Apr 2014 #32

I would be FUCKING THRILLED AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #44

Most do, in my (strictly anecdotal) experience. LTX Apr 2014 #63

No they don't... MellowDem Apr 2014 #66

In response to your questions, LTX Apr 2014 #74

The Bible, Torah, and Koran MellowDem Apr 2014 #78

Your literalism and definitional parameters are noted. LTX Apr 2014 #86

Literalism? You mean reasoning and logic? MellowDem Apr 2014 #89

No, I mean literalism. It's not a particularly difficult concept. LTX Apr 2014 #94

So you defend the Bible and religion, by saying it is not literally true? Brettongarcia Apr 2014 #132

My interest is in the nature, persistence, and role of religious thinking LTX Apr 2014 #146

Generally allegories etc. might be said to be half true; but inaccurate in any literal way, usually. Brettongarcia Apr 2014 #170

Humans are metaphor machines. LTX Apr 2014 #171

Sure; George Lackoff wrote Metaphors We Live By; I used that in my PhD dissertation Brettongarcia Apr 2014 #199

Well, this must explain why the Catholic Church spends millions lobbying AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #82

I don't know anything at all about the Catholic church's spending LTX Apr 2014 #96

They were the top 6 donors for the opposition to I-1000 in Washington State. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #99

Interesting. LTX Apr 2014 #103

Churches and charities are allowed to advocate on issues. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #105

Sheesh, where have we seen this before? skepticscott Apr 2014 #114

Actually, I simply did not know anything LTX Apr 2014 #121

I found your claim that you knew nothing about it skepticscott Apr 2014 #158

Well, I didn't. LTX Apr 2014 #163

I gave you the benefit of the doubt when you said you didn't know. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #196

Interesting you should say that. LTX Apr 2014 #198

AtheistCrusader is against people having a code of morals Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #180

My life is mine. Not yours. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #182

Kervorkian was hailed as a hero by many people of all faiths, and by those with no faith. trotsky Apr 2014 #192

That has nothing to do with falsifiability... MellowDem Apr 2014 #65

Your statement, in case you've forgotten: LTX Apr 2014 #75

No, that was indeed you... MellowDem Apr 2014 #81

Sorry, I must have missed the word "theory" in your post. LTX Apr 2014 #93

You've misconstrued a lot... MellowDem Apr 2014 #97

So be it. I'll accept my own misconstruction as sufficient reason for initial disagreement. LTX Apr 2014 #98

LTX? It is easy to disprove your claims, and religious claims, with science Brettongarcia Apr 2014 #135

Gibberish. n/t LTX Apr 2014 #147

scientism on steroids. AlbertCat Apr 2014 #137

How is scientism a made up word? cbayer Apr 2014 #145

How is it any different than religionism or religionist? AlbertCat Apr 2014 #150

Well, they are words with definitions. cbayer Apr 2014 #151

I think the "exaggerated trust" definition is apt in some cases. AlbertCat Apr 2014 #152

It means exactly what the definition says it means. cbayer Apr 2014 #153

It means trying to apply scientific method in areas that it is not applicable AlbertCat Apr 2014 #154

No one said it was a one way street or only applicable to science being misapplied. cbayer Apr 2014 #156

And who are those people? skepticscott Apr 2014 #159

Why did you feel the need to drag this into another group and call me out in the process? cbayer Apr 2014 #177

When science is removed from its parameters, LTX Apr 2014 #155

Oh, please...give us some examples of the "science answers all" mindset..if you can. skepticscott Apr 2014 #160

There are examples in this thread, if you choose to read them. n/t LTX Apr 2014 #164

Bullshit skepticscott Apr 2014 #165

See post numbers LTX Apr 2014 #168

Non-overlapping magisteria would be fantastic... Act_of_Reparation Apr 2014 #175

Oh brother. I'm not making an argument against empiricism. LTX Apr 2014 #183

My mistake. So, you're straw-manning it, then? Act_of_Reparation Apr 2014 #191

Having read the posts in the many forums here LTX Apr 2014 #194

Oh, and a rather fun examination of peculiarly modern "woo," LTX Apr 2014 #195

More bullshit...is that really all you have? skepticscott Apr 2014 #188

Well, that settles it then. LTX Apr 2014 #190

Ah, yes..playing the poor victim of bullying now skepticscott Apr 2014 #201

You should be happy, skepticscott. LTX Apr 2014 #203

What is your favorite color? stone space Apr 2014 #218

As a mathematician, I will say that sometimes it feels like Discovery, and sometimes like... stone space Apr 2014 #219

Atheist don't threaten you with damnation Politicalboi Apr 2014 #27

I would just remind you that there have been atheists with political power Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #38

Stalin replaced religion with The State/The Party. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #45

Stalin also attacked believers Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #69

Stalin didn't like competition. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #84

This is an old schtick from this poster skepticscott Apr 2014 #116

Yes, it is. And you atheists jumped through the most incredible hoops trying to deny what I said Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #140

I would not use that game as an example LostOne4Ever Apr 2014 #161

You didn't like that example? Fine. Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #166

Lol. rug Apr 2014 #173

Except Stalin did not just 'force others to be atheists'. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #186

The fact remains that Stalin DID at least try to force others to be atheists. Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #206

Because he didn't force atheism, he forced people to drop their loyalty to their church... trotsky Apr 2014 #207

This sounds an awful lot like what Humblebum used to say. cleanhippie Apr 2014 #211

Because you are misconstruing it. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #208

"one theocracy for another" okasha Apr 2014 #258

No, as I said upthread, it substituted The Party for former religious trappings. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #261

when do you think an Atheist President will be elected? AlbertCat Apr 2014 #178

I think it will happen and that it won't be that long. cbayer Apr 2014 #181

No, atheists have not been engaged in repression Warpy Apr 2014 #184

There is no 'atheist word'. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #209

I was under the impression that atheism means advancing the belief that there is no deity. DanTex Apr 2014 #227

You were under a false impression skepticscott Apr 2014 #228

There are a lot of people out there, I think skepticscott Apr 2014 #11

"the phony veneer of "liberal" and "progressive" faith will be stripped away" rug Apr 2014 #15

It does. I used ignore today for the first time. hrmjustin Apr 2014 #17

Irony still escapes you skepticscott Apr 2014 #18

No I get irony. hrmjustin Apr 2014 #19

I think one of the most interesting (and historically important) roles of "churches" LTX Apr 2014 #33

She's right - but it doesn't just apply to Atheism goldent Apr 2014 #30

I'm actually all for atheists proselytizing Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #31

One of these days... I'm going to go to the mormons at the end of the street AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #46

I thought satanists were atheists. bravenak Apr 2014 #58

Different kind of Satanist Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #120

I have a friend who is the other kind of satanist. bravenak Apr 2014 #124

I thought satanists were atheists. AlbertCat Apr 2014 #138

I swear a guy told me that they don't believe in satan, that they like to mess with people. bravenak Apr 2014 #139

Based on the contents of the bible, if I was forced to choose AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #197

If i had to choose, i'd make the same choice. bravenak Apr 2014 #200

Yeah, i've seen Dark Matter's videos. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #202

I think that "coming out" will decrease prejudice, increase understanding and cbayer Apr 2014 #34

Name the first 5 people you think of when you hear the term atheist. Leontius Apr 2014 #41

The author's position is that religion is an evil force? MellowDem Apr 2014 #67

Er, did you read the article you posted, MD? cbayer Apr 2014 #77

Then you're misconstruing her argument.... MellowDem Apr 2014 #87

Oh, please. Don't believe in evil? cbayer Apr 2014 #91

Yes MellowDem Apr 2014 #100

Yet, you and the author both seem to see religion as something cbayer Apr 2014 #101

It's bad based on my preferences... MellowDem Apr 2014 #107

So do you think religious people are less able to change their cbayer Apr 2014 #119

When their religion says... MellowDem Apr 2014 #122

But what if their religion doesn't say that cbayer Apr 2014 #123

Oh, so since YOU were never taught about "objective truths" skepticscott Apr 2014 #126

Er, did you? trotsky Apr 2014 #108

Thus the drop in religious affiliation as the Internet helps spread the good news about Atheism. Arugula Latte Apr 2014 #62

Since the internet, the porn industry is also booming. rug Apr 2014 #73

So? Arugula Latte Apr 2014 #102

The internet spreads all sorts of things. rug Apr 2014 #109

My point was that when people talk about the emperor of religion being naked, Arugula Latte Apr 2014 #111

Though both events are occurring, there is absolutely no evidence that there cbayer Apr 2014 #80

MIT is science-y. Arugula Latte Apr 2014 #104

That's from Olin College. rug Apr 2014 #110

Published in the MIT Technology Review. cleanhippie Apr 2014 #112

Researched at Olin College, not MIT. Not as science-y. rug Apr 2014 #115

Yes, this "study" has been posted here and is deeply flawed. cbayer Apr 2014 #118

I'd say it presents an interesting hypothesis. Brettongarcia Apr 2014 #133

In my religiously fervent community, I have probably been outed as an atheist. callous taoboy Apr 2014 #95

Is there an opportunity for discussion and education here? cbayer Apr 2014 #125

I just don't see what good it would do. callous taoboy Apr 2014 #127

I'm not one to easily share my personal details in this area either. cbayer Apr 2014 #128

Yeah, that was a great evening on so many levels. callous taoboy Apr 2014 #129

I just spent the evening with someone who had some great Kesey stories. cbayer Apr 2014 #131

Great article. The big difference in the New Atheism is that it is more visible. And more acceptable Brettongarcia Apr 2014 #134

I can't remember ever "coming out" as an atheist. It's never been a secret. stone space Apr 2014 #217

Combats the beliefs of somebody who doesn't believe in atheists! cbayer Apr 2014 #220

There are people who don't believe in atheists.... MellowDem Apr 2014 #223

Your experience is not the only one... MellowDem Apr 2014 #221

I've been "out" as an atheist for half a century now, but no, I don't know... stone space Apr 2014 #226

You're certainly showing you know little... MellowDem Apr 2014 #229

What exactly is it that I said that has you in such a tizzy that you feel the need... stone space Apr 2014 #230

I'm not insulting you... MellowDem Apr 2014 #231

What arguement of mine are you critiquing? stone space Apr 2014 #233

The argument that coming out atheist doesn't combat religion... MellowDem Apr 2014 #235

Ok, now I'm really confused. I came to this thread, obstensibly about folks... stone space Apr 2014 #236

You said an opinion... MellowDem Apr 2014 #237

The "opinion" that I stated was this: stone space Apr 2014 #239

You keep leaving a part out, why is that? MellowDem Apr 2014 #243

Please don't do that. stone space Apr 2014 #240

Your claims to titles... MellowDem Apr 2014 #241

Of course not. stone space Apr 2014 #242

You are most certainly not a troll. cbayer Apr 2014 #245

I keep going back to my original post and rereading it, trying to figure out... stone space Apr 2014 #248

It's not you. cbayer Apr 2014 #250

Someone alerted on your post, FYI Heddi Apr 2014 #247

I wonder who #7 is. rug Apr 2014 #249

I wonder who the alerter is? Heddi Apr 2014 #251

I'm sure it couldn't have been you. #7 doesn't sound a bit like you. rug Apr 2014 #252

What if I was? What if I wasn't? Do we all have to run our comments by you before hitting "submit?" Heddi Apr 2014 #253

If you posted your jury results (for whatever purpose), you should stand behind your vote. rug Apr 2014 #254

Who says I don't stand behind my vote? Heddi Apr 2014 #256

Oh, then you must be the one who didn't post a comment. rug Apr 2014 #257

Fascinating. trotsky Apr 2014 #259

And, as usual, you'd be wrong. rug Apr 2014 #260

Dunno - I would have alerted on that if I saw it muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #263

Lol! rug Apr 2014 #255

Welcom to DU. rug Apr 2014 #222

If only your school... MellowDem Apr 2014 #224

Maybe but it was hardly unique. rug Apr 2014 #225

Were you in Power Memorial when Lew Alcindor was there? Jim__ Apr 2014 #232

He graduated two years ahead of me. rug Apr 2014 #234

IIRC, the older one graduated in '64, the younger one in '66. Jim__ Apr 2014 #238

Alcindor graduated in 65. I graduated in 67. Small world. rug Apr 2014 #244

I'll do that. Jim__ Apr 2014 #246