Religion

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)

112. Published in the MIT Technology Review.

Reply to rug (Reply #110)

Fri Apr 18, 2014, 02:09 PM

Apr 2014

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Why Coming Out as an Atheist May Be the Most Powerful Way to Combat Religion [View all] MellowDem Apr 2014 OP

It's conflatng atheism with an intent to "Combat Religion". rug Apr 2014 #1

Where? MellowDem Apr 2014 #3

"Coming Out as an Atheist May Be the Most Powerful Way to Combat Religion" rug Apr 2014 #5

Nowhere does that conflate atheism with an intent to combat religion... MellowDem Apr 2014 #6

"The Most Powerful Way to Combat Religion May Be Coming Out as an Atheist." rug Apr 2014 #8

And it still doesn't conflate atheism... MellowDem Apr 2014 #10

Of course it does. You "combat" religion with secularism, not atheism. rug Apr 2014 #13

It does make no claims... MellowDem Apr 2014 #20

Then a claim that atheism combats religion is nonsense. rug Apr 2014 #22

The claim is that coming out as atheist combats religion MellowDem Apr 2014 #23

Because . . . . rug Apr 2014 #24

because... MellowDem Apr 2014 #28

Except announcing one's atheism does not deny "social consent" to relgion. rug Apr 2014 #29

Have you read the book? AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #47

No, it camw out last month. Have you? rug Apr 2014 #48

I have not. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #50

That must still sting. rug Apr 2014 #52

Not at all. There is simplicity in consistency that appeals to me. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #53

There is a difference. I pointed out a problem with its premise. Whereas you posted: rug Apr 2014 #56

When you objected, I clarified. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #61

I would have said chervilant Apr 2014 #59

Um no. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #42

That assumes that atheism, per se, "combats religion". It doesn't. rug Apr 2014 #49

By 'combats religion' I read that to mean AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #51

Again, there's nothing about atheism that compels "de-converting people from religion". rug Apr 2014 #54

Of course. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #55

Therefore, the premise of the book is false. rug Apr 2014 #57

Is it? AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #60

In your, NSHO Lordquinton Apr 2014 #130

so spreading the atheist word is ok Niceguy1 Apr 2014 #2

They aren't equal... MellowDem Apr 2014 #4

they are both persnal beliefs Niceguy1 Apr 2014 #7

Who said it was inherently evil to believe a certain way? MellowDem Apr 2014 #9

faith iant politics Niceguy1 Apr 2014 #14

Faith informs politics skepticscott Apr 2014 #16

decilas advocate. .... Niceguy1 Apr 2014 #25

It's not about allowing people to form opinions skepticscott Apr 2014 #26

What skepticscott is apparently trying to say Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #35

Don't hurt yourself, Stretch. Best let me explain. skepticscott Apr 2014 #39

In other words, as I said Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #72

As I said, don't hurt yourself thinking about it too much skepticscott Apr 2014 #92

I asked you if I had stated what you said correctly, and you repeated it in slightly different words Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #141

My exact words were right there skepticscott Apr 2014 #143

Yes, they were Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #149

Religion engages in politics... MellowDem Apr 2014 #21

So believing in God is bad? Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #36

Not "bad"... MellowDem Apr 2014 #64

In other words, "bad" Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #68

As in not "evil" MellowDem Apr 2014 #71

I agree that there is a lot of potential harm in believing false things, cbayer Apr 2014 #79

Whether religion is only a negative force... MellowDem Apr 2014 #83

I've read this post half a dozen times and I still have no idea what it means. cbayer Apr 2014 #88

Your conflating opinions on questions with no objective answer... MellowDem Apr 2014 #90

Some of us think that the truth should be superior skepticscott Apr 2014 #12

But we believers think that we hold to the truth Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #37

When someone's "truth" involves demonstrable falsehoods and nonsense skepticscott Apr 2014 #40

Because you can't demonstrate any evidence for your incredible claims. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #43

But "God does not exist" is also an extraordinary claim Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #70

Is saying "Unicorns don't exist" an extraordinary claim? immoderate Apr 2014 #76

Ah, but I say 'I do not believe god exists.' AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #85

Zeus does not exist. JNelson6563 Apr 2014 #106

silence -- apparently only claiming that the christian deity does not exist Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #113

apparently only claiming that the christian deity does not exist AlbertCat Apr 2014 #136

I assume you either still believe that Santa Claus exists skepticscott Apr 2014 #117

That's the sort of thing that gets you atheists disliked by believers: Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #142

You're right, actually skepticscott Apr 2014 #144

Thank you for that unabashed piece of atheist bigotry Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #148

And I can always count on you skepticscott Apr 2014 #157

This message was self-deleted by its author LTX Apr 2014 #162

Well, when you say bigoted things, Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #167

Do you honestly think that comparing your god to Santa Claus is "bigotry"? trotsky Apr 2014 #169

It's more stupidity than bigotry. rug Apr 2014 #172

Really Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #174

That comparison is happening in your own mind only, FA. trotsky Apr 2014 #176

Skepticscott was the one making the comparison between God and Santa Claus, not me Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #179

That would be falsely framing Skeptiscott's statement/claim. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #185

Bingo. n/t trotsky Apr 2014 #187

Sorry if you don't like the fact skepticscott Apr 2014 #189

And the best part is AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #193

Perhaps a better example than Santa Clause xfundy Apr 2014 #204

Post removed Post removed Apr 2014 #205

Well, it seems our friend crashed and burned. AGAIN! cleanhippie Apr 2014 #210

It's hard not to skepticscott Apr 2014 #212

How many hides is that now for him? cleanhippie Apr 2014 #213

Not likely skepticscott Apr 2014 #214

Wow, he now has as many hidden posts as you. rug Apr 2014 #215

My hide count is equal to the actual number of supernatural gods that exist. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #216

That would be super-convenient for you, wouldn't it? AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #265

The notion that humans are "born atheists" LTX Apr 2014 #262

Attractive and EASILY ACQUIRED. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #264

That's actually a good way to succinctly put it -- LTX Apr 2014 #266

Your conclusory propositions about "unfalsifiable claims" being bad is scientism on steroids. LTX Apr 2014 #32

I would be FUCKING THRILLED AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #44

Most do, in my (strictly anecdotal) experience. LTX Apr 2014 #63

No they don't... MellowDem Apr 2014 #66

In response to your questions, LTX Apr 2014 #74

The Bible, Torah, and Koran MellowDem Apr 2014 #78

Your literalism and definitional parameters are noted. LTX Apr 2014 #86

Literalism? You mean reasoning and logic? MellowDem Apr 2014 #89

No, I mean literalism. It's not a particularly difficult concept. LTX Apr 2014 #94

So you defend the Bible and religion, by saying it is not literally true? Brettongarcia Apr 2014 #132

My interest is in the nature, persistence, and role of religious thinking LTX Apr 2014 #146

Generally allegories etc. might be said to be half true; but inaccurate in any literal way, usually. Brettongarcia Apr 2014 #170

Humans are metaphor machines. LTX Apr 2014 #171

Sure; George Lackoff wrote Metaphors We Live By; I used that in my PhD dissertation Brettongarcia Apr 2014 #199

Well, this must explain why the Catholic Church spends millions lobbying AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #82

I don't know anything at all about the Catholic church's spending LTX Apr 2014 #96

They were the top 6 donors for the opposition to I-1000 in Washington State. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #99

Interesting. LTX Apr 2014 #103

Churches and charities are allowed to advocate on issues. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #105

Sheesh, where have we seen this before? skepticscott Apr 2014 #114

Actually, I simply did not know anything LTX Apr 2014 #121

I found your claim that you knew nothing about it skepticscott Apr 2014 #158

Well, I didn't. LTX Apr 2014 #163

I gave you the benefit of the doubt when you said you didn't know. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #196

Interesting you should say that. LTX Apr 2014 #198

AtheistCrusader is against people having a code of morals Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #180

My life is mine. Not yours. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #182

Kervorkian was hailed as a hero by many people of all faiths, and by those with no faith. trotsky Apr 2014 #192

That has nothing to do with falsifiability... MellowDem Apr 2014 #65

Your statement, in case you've forgotten: LTX Apr 2014 #75

No, that was indeed you... MellowDem Apr 2014 #81

Sorry, I must have missed the word "theory" in your post. LTX Apr 2014 #93

You've misconstrued a lot... MellowDem Apr 2014 #97

So be it. I'll accept my own misconstruction as sufficient reason for initial disagreement. LTX Apr 2014 #98

LTX? It is easy to disprove your claims, and religious claims, with science Brettongarcia Apr 2014 #135

Gibberish. n/t LTX Apr 2014 #147

scientism on steroids. AlbertCat Apr 2014 #137

How is scientism a made up word? cbayer Apr 2014 #145

How is it any different than religionism or religionist? AlbertCat Apr 2014 #150

Well, they are words with definitions. cbayer Apr 2014 #151

I think the "exaggerated trust" definition is apt in some cases. AlbertCat Apr 2014 #152

It means exactly what the definition says it means. cbayer Apr 2014 #153

It means trying to apply scientific method in areas that it is not applicable AlbertCat Apr 2014 #154

No one said it was a one way street or only applicable to science being misapplied. cbayer Apr 2014 #156

And who are those people? skepticscott Apr 2014 #159

Why did you feel the need to drag this into another group and call me out in the process? cbayer Apr 2014 #177

When science is removed from its parameters, LTX Apr 2014 #155

Oh, please...give us some examples of the "science answers all" mindset..if you can. skepticscott Apr 2014 #160

There are examples in this thread, if you choose to read them. n/t LTX Apr 2014 #164

Bullshit skepticscott Apr 2014 #165

See post numbers LTX Apr 2014 #168

Non-overlapping magisteria would be fantastic... Act_of_Reparation Apr 2014 #175

Oh brother. I'm not making an argument against empiricism. LTX Apr 2014 #183

My mistake. So, you're straw-manning it, then? Act_of_Reparation Apr 2014 #191

Having read the posts in the many forums here LTX Apr 2014 #194

Oh, and a rather fun examination of peculiarly modern "woo," LTX Apr 2014 #195

More bullshit...is that really all you have? skepticscott Apr 2014 #188

Well, that settles it then. LTX Apr 2014 #190

Ah, yes..playing the poor victim of bullying now skepticscott Apr 2014 #201

You should be happy, skepticscott. LTX Apr 2014 #203

What is your favorite color? stone space Apr 2014 #218

As a mathematician, I will say that sometimes it feels like Discovery, and sometimes like... stone space Apr 2014 #219

Atheist don't threaten you with damnation Politicalboi Apr 2014 #27

I would just remind you that there have been atheists with political power Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #38

Stalin replaced religion with The State/The Party. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #45

Stalin also attacked believers Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #69

Stalin didn't like competition. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #84

This is an old schtick from this poster skepticscott Apr 2014 #116

Yes, it is. And you atheists jumped through the most incredible hoops trying to deny what I said Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #140

I would not use that game as an example LostOne4Ever Apr 2014 #161

You didn't like that example? Fine. Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #166

Lol. rug Apr 2014 #173

Except Stalin did not just 'force others to be atheists'. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #186

The fact remains that Stalin DID at least try to force others to be atheists. Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #206

Because he didn't force atheism, he forced people to drop their loyalty to their church... trotsky Apr 2014 #207

This sounds an awful lot like what Humblebum used to say. cleanhippie Apr 2014 #211

Because you are misconstruing it. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #208

"one theocracy for another" okasha Apr 2014 #258

No, as I said upthread, it substituted The Party for former religious trappings. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #261

when do you think an Atheist President will be elected? AlbertCat Apr 2014 #178

I think it will happen and that it won't be that long. cbayer Apr 2014 #181

No, atheists have not been engaged in repression Warpy Apr 2014 #184

There is no 'atheist word'. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #209

I was under the impression that atheism means advancing the belief that there is no deity. DanTex Apr 2014 #227

You were under a false impression skepticscott Apr 2014 #228

There are a lot of people out there, I think skepticscott Apr 2014 #11

"the phony veneer of "liberal" and "progressive" faith will be stripped away" rug Apr 2014 #15

It does. I used ignore today for the first time. hrmjustin Apr 2014 #17

Irony still escapes you skepticscott Apr 2014 #18

No I get irony. hrmjustin Apr 2014 #19

I think one of the most interesting (and historically important) roles of "churches" LTX Apr 2014 #33

She's right - but it doesn't just apply to Atheism goldent Apr 2014 #30

I'm actually all for atheists proselytizing Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #31

One of these days... I'm going to go to the mormons at the end of the street AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #46

I thought satanists were atheists. bravenak Apr 2014 #58

Different kind of Satanist Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #120

I have a friend who is the other kind of satanist. bravenak Apr 2014 #124

I thought satanists were atheists. AlbertCat Apr 2014 #138

I swear a guy told me that they don't believe in satan, that they like to mess with people. bravenak Apr 2014 #139

Based on the contents of the bible, if I was forced to choose AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #197

If i had to choose, i'd make the same choice. bravenak Apr 2014 #200

Yeah, i've seen Dark Matter's videos. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #202

I think that "coming out" will decrease prejudice, increase understanding and cbayer Apr 2014 #34

Name the first 5 people you think of when you hear the term atheist. Leontius Apr 2014 #41

The author's position is that religion is an evil force? MellowDem Apr 2014 #67

Er, did you read the article you posted, MD? cbayer Apr 2014 #77

Then you're misconstruing her argument.... MellowDem Apr 2014 #87

Oh, please. Don't believe in evil? cbayer Apr 2014 #91

Yes MellowDem Apr 2014 #100

Yet, you and the author both seem to see religion as something cbayer Apr 2014 #101

It's bad based on my preferences... MellowDem Apr 2014 #107

So do you think religious people are less able to change their cbayer Apr 2014 #119

When their religion says... MellowDem Apr 2014 #122

But what if their religion doesn't say that cbayer Apr 2014 #123

Oh, so since YOU were never taught about "objective truths" skepticscott Apr 2014 #126

Er, did you? trotsky Apr 2014 #108

Thus the drop in religious affiliation as the Internet helps spread the good news about Atheism. Arugula Latte Apr 2014 #62

Since the internet, the porn industry is also booming. rug Apr 2014 #73

So? Arugula Latte Apr 2014 #102

The internet spreads all sorts of things. rug Apr 2014 #109

My point was that when people talk about the emperor of religion being naked, Arugula Latte Apr 2014 #111

Though both events are occurring, there is absolutely no evidence that there cbayer Apr 2014 #80

MIT is science-y. Arugula Latte Apr 2014 #104

That's from Olin College. rug Apr 2014 #110

Published in the MIT Technology Review. cleanhippie Apr 2014 #112

Researched at Olin College, not MIT. Not as science-y. rug Apr 2014 #115

Yes, this "study" has been posted here and is deeply flawed. cbayer Apr 2014 #118

I'd say it presents an interesting hypothesis. Brettongarcia Apr 2014 #133

In my religiously fervent community, I have probably been outed as an atheist. callous taoboy Apr 2014 #95

Is there an opportunity for discussion and education here? cbayer Apr 2014 #125

I just don't see what good it would do. callous taoboy Apr 2014 #127

I'm not one to easily share my personal details in this area either. cbayer Apr 2014 #128

Yeah, that was a great evening on so many levels. callous taoboy Apr 2014 #129

I just spent the evening with someone who had some great Kesey stories. cbayer Apr 2014 #131

Great article. The big difference in the New Atheism is that it is more visible. And more acceptable Brettongarcia Apr 2014 #134

I can't remember ever "coming out" as an atheist. It's never been a secret. stone space Apr 2014 #217

Combats the beliefs of somebody who doesn't believe in atheists! cbayer Apr 2014 #220

There are people who don't believe in atheists.... MellowDem Apr 2014 #223

Your experience is not the only one... MellowDem Apr 2014 #221

I've been "out" as an atheist for half a century now, but no, I don't know... stone space Apr 2014 #226

You're certainly showing you know little... MellowDem Apr 2014 #229

What exactly is it that I said that has you in such a tizzy that you feel the need... stone space Apr 2014 #230

I'm not insulting you... MellowDem Apr 2014 #231

What arguement of mine are you critiquing? stone space Apr 2014 #233

The argument that coming out atheist doesn't combat religion... MellowDem Apr 2014 #235

Ok, now I'm really confused. I came to this thread, obstensibly about folks... stone space Apr 2014 #236

You said an opinion... MellowDem Apr 2014 #237

The "opinion" that I stated was this: stone space Apr 2014 #239

You keep leaving a part out, why is that? MellowDem Apr 2014 #243

Please don't do that. stone space Apr 2014 #240

Your claims to titles... MellowDem Apr 2014 #241

Of course not. stone space Apr 2014 #242

You are most certainly not a troll. cbayer Apr 2014 #245

I keep going back to my original post and rereading it, trying to figure out... stone space Apr 2014 #248

It's not you. cbayer Apr 2014 #250

Someone alerted on your post, FYI Heddi Apr 2014 #247

I wonder who #7 is. rug Apr 2014 #249

I wonder who the alerter is? Heddi Apr 2014 #251

I'm sure it couldn't have been you. #7 doesn't sound a bit like you. rug Apr 2014 #252

What if I was? What if I wasn't? Do we all have to run our comments by you before hitting "submit?" Heddi Apr 2014 #253

If you posted your jury results (for whatever purpose), you should stand behind your vote. rug Apr 2014 #254

Who says I don't stand behind my vote? Heddi Apr 2014 #256

Oh, then you must be the one who didn't post a comment. rug Apr 2014 #257

Fascinating. trotsky Apr 2014 #259

And, as usual, you'd be wrong. rug Apr 2014 #260

Dunno - I would have alerted on that if I saw it muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #263

Lol! rug Apr 2014 #255

Welcom to DU. rug Apr 2014 #222

If only your school... MellowDem Apr 2014 #224

Maybe but it was hardly unique. rug Apr 2014 #225

Were you in Power Memorial when Lew Alcindor was there? Jim__ Apr 2014 #232

He graduated two years ahead of me. rug Apr 2014 #234

IIRC, the older one graduated in '64, the younger one in '66. Jim__ Apr 2014 #238

Alcindor graduated in 65. I graduated in 67. Small world. rug Apr 2014 #244

I'll do that. Jim__ Apr 2014 #246