Religion

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)

113. It's intellectually dishonest because I fail to live up to your interpretation of

Tue May 6, 2014, 10:19 AM

May 2014

my principals.

Do you see yourself as arguing in good faith here? Why is your interpretation the one that matters and mine doesn't? I've been a member my whole life and people interpret the word of wisdom in a dozen different ways - like many commandments. As I said above Juice and Vinegar both have trace amounts of alcohol in them, and yet we are not prohibited from drinking them - so what is the actual prohibition going to - in my opinion it's using alcohol as a drug, which I don't do. I don't cook with alcohol to get high. That's how I interpret the commandment.

So why exactly is your interpretation the valid one and mine isn't? Why am I intellectually dishonest for living up to the standards as I understand them instead of as you understand them?

Also given that under the framework Warren Stupidity proposed and that you have bought into, I am definitely dishonest and/or thoughtless - isn't continuing this discussion a mugs game? I mean it's just going to get more and more insulting, since there is no path wherein a believer is a person worthy of respect. You will just keep insulting me until you declare yourself the winner, right?

And since we've exhausted the Word of Wisdom, why don't we go onto sexual ethics, since I'm sure that's what you were hinting at yesterday - lots of ways to insult me on that subject.

Bryant

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Today in the Religion Forum I learned: [View all] Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 OP

I learned the depth of the dishonesty of posters who rearrange others' words in lieu of argument. rug Apr 2014 #1

Warren, that is not the takeaway, my friend. The takeaway is the willful ignorance cleanhippie Apr 2014 #2

Yes I've noticed that it's only the believers/religionists who engage in thinly veiled insults el_bryanto Apr 2014 #4

I don't 'thinly veil' my reaction to outright bigotry, or apologia thereof. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #7

Apologia in this case meaning someone who is a believer and chooses to el_bryanto Apr 2014 #9

If belief is part and parcel of, for instance, calling same sex marriage a sin. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #11

So any Catholic who doesn't condemn the Pope, I take it. nt el_bryanto Apr 2014 #12

I'm open to alternate interpretations if they are logically sound and well reasoned. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #14

I'm a Mormon - I'll speculate that probably isn't much better from your perspective. el_bryanto Apr 2014 #16

Depends. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #17

Both religions absolutely refuse to let women have any leadership positions at all. No change. Manifestor_of_Light Apr 2014 #27

Oh, absolutely. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #30

The problem with the LDS flavor of revision, nothing is learned. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2014 #36

I was not aware of that aspect. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #37

Well, the fantastic part about the whole thing is... Act_of_Reparation Apr 2014 #38

HeyDon't forget what an important place the penis - and circumcision - had for Judaism & for Christ! Brettongarcia May 2014 #39

Yes and it's barbaric and unnecessary. Manifestor_of_Light May 2014 #44

I agree. Just being sarcastic. Brettongarcia May 2014 #55

my Wife's side of the family is fully mormon. Phlem May 2014 #77

Gosh I'm sorry a bunch of people I've never met treated you poorly. el_bryanto May 2014 #78

Right and they're not all influenced by the same religion. Phlem May 2014 #79

What am I supposed to say? el_bryanto May 2014 #80

Yes, I have yet to meet the latter no matter how kind and gentle they front. Phlem May 2014 #82

Well there's little point to being embarrassed about it el_bryanto May 2014 #84

You say you dislike bigotry Starboard Tack May 2014 #121

I've met quite a few horrendous bigots who are superficially Warren Stupidity May 2014 #122

What's your point Warren? Starboard Tack May 2014 #124

You seem to have claimed that being all nice and everything Warren Stupidity May 2014 #125

Excuse me! Which side of your mouth should I respond to? Starboard Tack May 2014 #127

What's wrong? Phlem May 2014 #131

i'll use fewer words. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #135

ok, so what exactly are you saying? Starboard Tack May 2014 #136

nice does not mean not bigoted. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #137

Got it! Loud and clear! Starboard Tack May 2014 #138

Dude Phlem May 2014 #132

Oh sorry. I thought you were talking about people, not beliefs. Starboard Tack May 2014 #145

... Phlem May 2014 #146

So sorry if I'm not operating on your schedule. I have a life and probably a different time zone. Starboard Tack May 2014 #153

Richard Dawkins is unfailingly polite. rug May 2014 #134

Oh, OK then, cause you've walked a mile in my shoes. Phlem May 2014 #123

No, I haven't walked a yard in your shoes. Starboard Tack May 2014 #126

Man you really just don't get it and I'm not going to spell it out. Phlem May 2014 #129

I'm not trying to prove anything Starboard Tack May 2014 #133

I. haven't walked in your. shoes, either. okasha May 2014 #128

That's great! Phlem May 2014 #130

I have yet to see you object to atheistic bigotry Fortinbras Armstrong May 2014 #139

Keep reading. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #140

I did. You have not shown the slightest disapproval of atheist bigotry Fortinbras Armstrong May 2014 #141

I'm not your pet monkey. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #142

Translation Fortinbras Armstrong May 2014 #143

Again, I am not your pet monkey. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #144

In other words Fortinbras Armstrong May 2014 #154

You have just as much access to the site search feature as I do. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #157

No, you are not my servant nor my pet. You are, however, my opponent in a debate Fortinbras Armstrong May 2014 #161

You made the assertion. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #162

No YOU made the assertion that you opposed all bigotry. Fortinbras Armstrong May 2014 #165

I didn't refuse to answer. I refused to do your homework for your claim. (I've never seen therefore AtheistCrusader May 2014 #166

In Other Words, you make an ugly accusation then insist your victim prove their innocence. cleanhippie May 2014 #158

All I ask him to do was show -- or at least say -- he opposed atheistic bigotry Fortinbras Armstrong May 2014 #160

Maybe you should just read more. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #163

Translation: AtheistCrusader will not support his assertion Fortinbras Armstrong May 2014 #164

I explicitly answered this claim four hours before you posted this. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #167

I learned that b/c no one can prove or disprove the existence of god, both camps are equally wrong Act_of_Reparation Apr 2014 #3

Probably Hardball. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #8

FOX News, I think, pioneered the "both sides are equal" reporting concept. trotsky Apr 2014 #10

This is pretty amusing el_bryanto Apr 2014 #13

Well, you yourself have claimed there is something you have that non-believers never will. trotsky Apr 2014 #15

I said that when pressed - that's not exactly the missionary fever el_bryanto Apr 2014 #18

Pascal's Wager is morally bankrupt. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #19

Pascal's Wager? trotsky Apr 2014 #20

I guess Pascal's wager was poorly chosen - was on my way to lunch el_bryanto Apr 2014 #21

As compared to the overall generic believer, it's hard to say. trotsky Apr 2014 #22

There's an interesting blindspot I have when it comes to atheism el_bryanto May 2014 #41

So you don't believe this: Warren Stupidity May 2014 #54

I don't really care to debate scriptures and how best to apply them in our lives el_bryanto May 2014 #57

and there it is. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #59

What dishonesty are you talking about? As far as I know everything i said was factual. el_bryanto May 2014 #60

Having read your comments below here you go el_bryanto May 2014 #64

I see you posted your argument in favor of believers being thoughtless and dishonest el_bryanto May 2014 #66

Let me ask you something. trotsky May 2014 #67

Someone who is intellectual dishonest is dishonest - either because they are too el_bryanto May 2014 #68

Well, if you can read his mind then I have nothing more to say. n/t trotsky May 2014 #69

Because it's not a defensible position el_bryanto May 2014 #70

I guess it depends on your answers to questions about your faith. trotsky May 2014 #71

That's an interesting question el_bryanto May 2014 #72

Is it a real, physical planet like Earth? n/t trotsky May 2014 #73

I believe so. el_bryanto May 2014 #74

When happens when your planet (if you have one) gets consumed by a supernova? trotsky May 2014 #75

I don't really have an answer to that question. el_bryanto May 2014 #76

The people on the planet that a Mormon ends up running... trotsky May 2014 #81

Well it's not really a core belief el_bryanto May 2014 #83

I think it's highly intellectually dishonest... trotsky May 2014 #85

I haven't discarded any beliefs from my religion el_bryanto May 2014 #86

Do you wear the special underwear? trotsky May 2014 #88

Yes yes and yes el_bryanto May 2014 #90

Do you believe that homosexuality is a sin, as your church teaches? n/t trotsky May 2014 #91

All sex outside of Marriage is a sin including el_bryanto May 2014 #92

Do you believe that Thomas Monson is your prophet, and that he speaks for god? trotsky May 2014 #93

Yes and yes el_bryanto May 2014 #94

Didn't think I needed to rub it in, it's obvious that you're not quite honest with that one. trotsky May 2014 #95

There are varying interpretations of that one el_bryanto May 2014 #96

Already made the point that being intellectually dishonest is not the same as being a liar. trotsky May 2014 #97

OK - which policies do I acknowledge but disregard for myself? el_bryanto May 2014 #98

Not following the dietary rules for one. trotsky May 2014 #99

OK -lets stick with that one el_bryanto May 2014 #100

I consider the Mormon Church's website to be a pretty good indicator of what those laws are. trotsky May 2014 #101

I'm not drinking the alcohol if I use it to cook el_bryanto May 2014 #102

That's intellectually dishonest. trotsky May 2014 #112

It's intellectually dishonest because I fail to live up to your interpretation of el_bryanto May 2014 #113

You are correct in one thing. trotsky May 2014 #114

Yep - once again you declare yourself the winner and end the discussion. el_bryanto May 2014 #115

I thought it was pretty clear you had declared yourself the victor. trotsky May 2014 #116

Well, and lets be fair - accusing me and all believers of being thoughtless and dishonest el_bryanto May 2014 #117

Yup, you win! trotsky May 2014 #118

Yeah cause that's exactly what I said. el_bryanto May 2014 #119

I could say the same thing. n/t trotsky May 2014 #120

Do you oppose marriage equality? Warren Stupidity May 2014 #110

No - I don't see any argument against marriage equality that isn't based strictly on el_bryanto May 2014 #111

I would categorize that exchange as "thoughtless". Warren Stupidity May 2014 #87

Hmm, yes, you do have a good point there. trotsky May 2014 #89

yes. Not believing in bullshit is a positive benefit. Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #25

As shown by Ayn Rand, Charles Krauthammer and David Silverman. rug May 2014 #56

so you are softening your position? Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #24

I've tried not to stereotype all atheists el_bryanto Apr 2014 #28

your former position that all believers are thoughtless and or dishonest was alone AlbertCat May 2014 #45

Well in the case of Warren Stupidity el_bryanto May 2014 #47

So far, in this forum, my conjecture about theists remains true. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #48

Just in this forum or in real life as well? el_bryanto May 2014 #49

oh real life too, but for the most part discussions about faith and belief don't happen. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #50

Thank you for responding. el_bryanto May 2014 #52

all believers are thoughtless and/or dishonest. AlbertCat May 2014 #51

I salute your moral courage. el_bryanto May 2014 #53

Well that is my point. I have yet to have a discussion here on faith and belief with a believer Warren Stupidity May 2014 #58

I have come to the conclusion that to a degree, we are not using the same language. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #61

A couple of points el_bryanto May 2014 #62

Oh I think there is willful dishonesty on actual beliefs. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #63

I responded to your question above. el_bryanto May 2014 #65

Pascal's Wager has a flaw even Pascal noted Prophet 451 May 2014 #152

You know what, Phlem May 2014 #104

Interesting though; this means that firm believers also have to be wrong. Brettongarcia May 2014 #40

Could you post a link to statement #1? Who made that argument? el_bryanto Apr 2014 #5

You do agree that "because there is no way to prove or disprove Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #23

I didn't see a link to it and I didn't come across it el_bryanto Apr 2014 #29

Well, the poster doesn't profess to be a believer but. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #31

Ah so you think that poster was literally arguing that there is no life on other planets el_bryanto Apr 2014 #32

That is exactly what was argued. Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #33

It was a broken analogy. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #35

It was a broken analogy. AlbertCat May 2014 #46

It's been a fascinating week, hasn't it? AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #6

Today I learned that rejecting bigotry, makes me a bigot myself. AtheistCrusader Apr 2014 #26

I've learned that a lot on DU. Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #34

Today is revealing yet more fascinating truths! AtheistCrusader May 2014 #42

Link please? nt el_bryanto May 2014 #43

The thing I've learned over time is Phlem May 2014 #109

Maybe I watched too much Sci-Fi; but ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #103

Why not? Pieces of mars have ended up on earth long before human spaceflight of any sort. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #105

Because, maybe, I've watched too much Sci-Fi. ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #106

Fair enough. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #107

I never really got over my middle school view of ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #108

Today I learned I am far too trusting LostOne4Ever May 2014 #147

FWIW Goblinmonger May 2014 #148

Too Trusting!? Phlem May 2014 #149

3. It's Phlem May 2014 #150

What the huh? Prophet 451 May 2014 #151

I agree that (2) was just astounding. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #155

Even as a believer, I don't follow it Prophet 451 May 2014 #156

well, the problem is really "wagon circling". Warren Stupidity May 2014 #159