Religion

Leontius

(2,270 posts)

81. "Turning the other cheek"

Fri May 30, 2014, 10:29 AM

May 2014

It is not about submission to aggression it is about showing your antagonist for what he truly is. Study the customs of the area and time it will open your eyes to new meanings of a lot of what Jesus was teaching.

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What did I learn from asking believers and atheists what they want from each other? [View all] Htom Sirveaux May 2014 OP

Curious as to where you got all this skepticscott May 2014 #1

As opposed to all the threads in A&A about who's ignoring who in Religion? rug May 2014 #17

. hrmjustin May 2014 #22

If you agreed with any of what I had to say, Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #43

This from the man who falsely accused me of lying Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #191

.... Goblinmonger Jun 2014 #194

I was not so much complaining about scott's slandering me Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #195

Libel? AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #197

First, the statement by Dawkins is in his 2006 article "Religion's Real Child Abuse" Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #198

Libel! AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #199

Did you ever read A P Herbert's Uncommon Law? Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #211

No, but that's pretty funny. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #221

Yeah, because YOU FABRICATED A QUOTE to bash him with. trotsky Jun 2014 #202

And you are simply lying Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #212

I love it when you bring this up! trotsky Jun 2014 #217

I find it interesting Goblinmonger Jun 2014 #219

That's a pretty big article. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #222

I'm just trying to tell you Goblinmonger Jun 2014 #203

No, you basically made shit up, and were forced to admit it skepticscott Jun 2014 #204

LOL whoops. trotsky Jun 2014 #205

Aren't you the one who whines about quote mining a safe haven? rug Jun 2014 #220

No, I cited him quite accurately Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #213

But you didn't QUOTE him accurately. trotsky Jun 2014 #218

IBTS EvolveOrConvolve May 2014 #2

Don't just stand there, fling away! Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #3

While some may not agree, I think your intent was good EvolveOrConvolve May 2014 #4

Maybe you could take the opportunity to weigh in. cbayer May 2014 #100

Judge for yourself. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #5

Thank you for that! nt Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #8

This seems very insightful to me... TygrBright May 2014 #6

Well done. hrmjustin May 2014 #7

Apparently it is unclear to believers that to many non-believers their beliefs are fairy tales. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #9

Would you get different reactions Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #10

their beliefs are not "mistaken" they are "made up stories". Warren Stupidity May 2014 #11

As a claim of factual history, yes, Hansel and Gretel is mistaken. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #12

You can prove that? Warren Stupidity May 2014 #14

There's got to be a better way to express non-factuality. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #19

Well, if someone wants to acknowledge skepticscott May 2014 #23

I get infuriated when they tell me I believe in fairy-tales. I really believe in my faith. hrmjustin May 2014 #25

And you, like they, would like to be empathized with. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #27

Well I don't tell them their views are fairy tales. hrmjustin May 2014 #29

This message was self-deleted by its author Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #30

Yeah, frustration. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #31

There are some that no mattered what I said they turned it into a fight. hrmjustin May 2014 #35

Perhaps sometimes, that's the only way. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #38

But I will not let them insult me without a fight. hrmjustin May 2014 #39

What if someone wants a fight? Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #40

I answer their posts. I try to be civil but I am sure there are examples of where I was not. hrmjustin May 2014 #42

It's a process. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #45

I think your honest but this room along with the I/P room is the most contentious room on du so hrmjustin May 2014 #48

If I say 'The Rangers suck', am I insulting a team you like, or am I insulting *you*? AtheistCrusader May 2014 #80

And that's pretty much the gist of what's wrong with this place Act_of_Reparation May 2014 #83

That's a great analogy. trotsky May 2014 #85

I also have had personal insults here. hrmjustin May 2014 #91

I've been called a lot of things on DU. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #93

Ia m not a theocrat and anyone that calls me that I am done with them. hrmjustin May 2014 #94

You may not be, but is it possible that you may have said something in that thread that could be AtheistCrusader May 2014 #95

I disagreed on tax exempt status for houses of worship. I said I am for reform but I am a theocrat. hrmjustin May 2014 #96

I can't tell what happened without more context. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #98

I respect your opinions but I think the exemption should exist. hrmjustin May 2014 #99

Supporting that exemption means forcing me to pay government imposed taxes to support a church. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #104

Thank you for your opinion. hrmjustin May 2014 #105

I sense that you feel offended by the term. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #106

How do you pay for my church? hrmjustin May 2014 #107

Depends on where you live. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #109

Same can be said for other non profits. hrmjustin May 2014 #110

Against which there is no constitutional proscription. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #115

I can respect your principled view. hrmjustin May 2014 #117

Ok, and I thank you for that, however, AtheistCrusader May 2014 #118

Well think tax exempt status for non profits should exist. hrmjustin May 2014 #121

Then we are at an impasse, where your position supports a condition that one might AtheistCrusader May 2014 #123

I support it for all non profits. hrmjustin May 2014 #124

I do not consider tax exempt status of churches as theocracy... LeftishBrit Jun 2014 #190

I, too, vehemently oppose the wars. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #193

Religion has quite a lot to say about war. stone space Jun 2014 #200

The poster I responded to AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #201

I have no idea what you mean by a "differentiation issue". stone space Jun 2014 #206

That poster did not raise it as a religious issue. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #207

My initial post here was to a post of yours, not a post of anybody else. stone space Jun 2014 #208

I'm an atheist, and I have no religion. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #209

I wish we lived in a world Goblinmonger Jun 2014 #210

Direct insults Dorian Gray Jun 2014 #184

The insult was part of an ongoing okasha Jun 2014 #186

I know very well Dorian Gray Jun 2014 #187

But suppose you said "the Rangers suck" to an actual member of the Rangers? Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #141

Hmm. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #173

They so obviously don't suck Dorian Gray Jun 2014 #183

Which athiest beliefs are fairy tales? Warren Stupidity May 2014 #67

Actually there is a great atheist fairy tale "His Dark Materials". Warren Stupidity May 2014 #68

It's a well written trilogy Dorian Gray Jun 2014 #185

Please what I write and don't make stuff up. I never said you guys believe in fairy tales. hrmjustin May 2014 #90

"Well I don't tell them their views are fairy tales" Warren Stupidity May 2014 #126

Yeah I don't tell you that. I don't believe you do. hrmjustin May 2014 #128

You have my permission to point out exactly which atheist beliefs are fairy tales. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #136

No thank you. hrmjustin May 2014 #137

Well see that is why there is no particular equivalency. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #162

I think he is saying AtheistCrusader May 2014 #175

Yeah I got that. I understand why, given that is true, they feel put upon Warren Stupidity May 2014 #177

You got something but that's not it. rug May 2014 #178

Would you accept 'mythology' if not stated as direct, vicious invective? AtheistCrusader May 2014 #57

Mythology is acceptable to me. hrmjustin May 2014 #87

I concur that mythology is an improvement Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #142

I am quite certain there is one participant in this thread that would object, but I'll wait paitent AtheistCrusader May 2014 #174

That doesn't mean that some of the things skepticscott May 2014 #63

Exactly Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #192

Why? Because you say so? trotsky Jun 2014 #196

Right. Saying "believing in the Easter Bunny is more rational than believing in God" shows respect. Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #214

A magical easter bunny violates fewer physical laws. Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #215

It makes for an interesting argument, yes indeed. trotsky Jun 2014 #216

"believers in God aren't as rational as a typical five-year-old". AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #223

My wife and I decided very early on Goblinmonger Jun 2014 #224

Yep. When he's ready to ask, he deserves an honest answer. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #225

Thank you for supporting my point Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #228

I said 'more rational'. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #229

My guess: Goblinmonger Jun 2014 #230

I have certainly bookmarked that post for future reference. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #231

It's particularly bad with FA, but yes, there are plenty of others who love to jump on that. n/t trotsky Jun 2014 #232

Maybe this will give FA something else to complain about Goblinmonger Jun 2014 #233

Of course there is. okasha May 2014 #49

A good suggestion. Is that acceptable, Warren? nt Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #51

No. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #65

I am an atheist, but I don't feel a need to evangelize the faithful. Maedhros May 2014 #125

Yes, I respect their beliefs outside of the religion forum. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #127

I would say to you what I say to religious persons: Maedhros May 2014 #134

If "metaphors not meant literally" captures the same meaning for you as Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #143

It doesn't capture the same meaning skepticscott May 2014 #159

You know what? I almost never use the phrase "fairy tale" unless Warren Stupidity May 2014 #161

That works the first time skepticscott May 2014 #64

Which "nonsense, lies and outright crap" are you specifically referring to? nt Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #144

Well, start with the parts of the Bible skepticscott May 2014 #152

Wait, now I'm confused. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #154

No, the same person isn't doing both at the same time (usually) skepticscott May 2014 #157

"fiction" Warren Stupidity May 2014 #170

Do you prefer "myth"? nt PassingFair May 2014 #176

I have a policy of always telling the truth. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #55

Isn't part of good communication considering your audience? nt Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #145

And who is the "audience" in this case? skepticscott May 2014 #151

No, but they should be primary. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #153

It's a public discussion board, not a "conversation" skepticscott May 2014 #155

Possibly. It is, however, not my area of expertise. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #172

I would say 'mythology' as a less-abrasive term, but that has been strenuously objected to as well. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #54

It goes back to what I said about people wanting to control how they are labeled. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #56

It becomes difficult to communicate if I am not to use any terms that reflect the un-falsifiable AtheistCrusader May 2014 #58

Mythology is an improvement, and so is Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #146

Nice try but it seems to have failed to make any impression on some. Leontius May 2014 #13

Could this observation itself be seen as provocative? nt Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #15

Why yes, yes it could. trotsky May 2014 #74

If the truth is provocative it's still the truth. Leontius May 2014 #84

Utter horseshit. trotsky May 2014 #86

There's that smell again. Leontius May 2014 #88

Stay classy, dude. trotsky May 2014 #112

Indeed. okasha May 2014 #16

lol I love it when they get all upset about the "ghost town" that is interfaith. hrmjustin May 2014 #20

Upset? Hardly. Amused, perhaps skepticscott May 2014 #24

Well, that's a deep and meaningful post. rug May 2014 #28

It reflects my position as well. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #59

I hope the hypocrisy of his post does not reflect on you as well. rug May 2014 #71

Yes it is. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #78

Very enlightening links. JNelson6563 May 2014 #82

They're both exceedingly accurate descriptions. rug May 2014 #108

Oh yes, let's take them one by one. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #111

Let's not. I don't like apologetics. rug May 2014 #113

Well, at least you could stop attributing bullshit to me. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #116

Actually, that is the oft-stated position of your three hosts over there. Take it up with them. rug May 2014 #119

I shall. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #120

Keep me posted. rug May 2014 #122

The point, Justin, is that you have a forum that is exactly what you want this Warren Stupidity May 2014 #66

Well Warren I am not asking to impose new rules in this room. Read my posts more carefully next time hrmjustin May 2014 #89

Well yes you have, but whatever. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #130

link to where I have. hrmjustin May 2014 #131

Maybe we could start by stopping the referrals to "us" and "them". cbayer May 2014 #103

I will try harder next time. hrmjustin May 2014 #114

Thank you. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #147

To be honest I think it is not going to work so I think I will post less in this room. hrmjustin May 2014 #148

yes that would be confusing in your case, I can understand that. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #171

How about we try to make this an opportunity to establish some ground rules cbayer May 2014 #102

It is very nice to see some even-handedness from you, cbayer. trotsky May 2014 #129

It's a small group that I'm talking about. Leontius May 2014 #164

So let's engage with the people that do so civilly and are here for a good adult cbayer May 2014 #165

No, they wouldn't skepticscott May 2014 #167

And exactly who are you speaking for now? rug May 2014 #169

I completely agree with that. rug May 2014 #168

Dishonest people do not want honest communication. rug May 2014 #18

What I see are people testing each other's patience, Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #21

I see people who use other people to reinforce their uncertain certainty. rug May 2014 #26

If people ask for something, Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #32

"Excuse me, may I abuse you while mocking your opinions?" rug May 2014 #33

What of forgiveness, of compassion, of non-attachment? Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #34

We are not going to allow them to walk all over us. hrmjustin May 2014 #36

A perfect response to honest emotion. rug May 2014 #37

Love your enemies, Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #41

As another wise man once said, "I may have to love them but I don't have to like them." rug May 2014 #44

I don't think of them as enemies either. hrmjustin May 2014 #46

Here's a great sermon on the subject. rug May 2014 #50

Isn't there anything that could be done whether others cooperate or not? Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #47

Sure. You can state your mind honestly. If the other doesn't like it, responds unkindly rug May 2014 #52

As I said to atheistcrusader, Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #149

Good communication requires understanding your audience. rug May 2014 #166

One of my history teachers okasha May 2014 #53

My last high school history teacher's graduation advice was: AtheistCrusader May 2014 #60

He'd be right in tune with my theatrical friend okasha May 2014 #61

Some people just want to watch the world burn, I suppose. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #62

"Turning the other cheek" Leontius May 2014 #81

How to better communicate LostOne4Ever May 2014 #69

The whole point of the religion dungeon is to be the place where we disagree about religion. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #70

The whole point of the Religion Group is to discuss. rug May 2014 #72

Good post. Thank you. n/t trotsky May 2014 #75

I agree with a lot of this. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #150

I find it interesting to note that... trotsky May 2014 #73

I find diplomacy Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #158

I'm not an atheist, but PatrickforO May 2014 #76

I couldn't agree more. trotsky May 2014 #77

What I want from believers is: LeftishBrit May 2014 #79

Beautifully stated. okasha May 2014 #92

Those are fair requests on your part and I think they could easily be honored. cbayer May 2014 #97

I think you misunderstand the nature of some of those criticisms.... mike_c May 2014 #132

But does that happen here, in this room? cbayer May 2014 #133

I don't think that I do engage in hateful broad brushing of believers LeftishBrit May 2014 #179

Thoughtful post and I think we agree on much more than we might disagree on. cbayer May 2014 #180

Conversion attempts haven't happened to my knowledge; I was giving that as an example of what I LeftishBrit May 2014 #181

Well, I think it's clear that both believers and non-believers are welcome here. cbayer May 2014 #182

To say you've never seen that is a little hard to believe, cbayer. trotsky Jun 2014 #188

This has been very well done and I, for one, truly appreciate it. cbayer May 2014 #101

From interfaith room LostOne4Ever May 2014 #139

Thanks for this. cbayer May 2014 #140

That is a good way of looking at it LostOne4Ever May 2014 #156

The issue, imo, is the ability to push back in a civil manner cbayer May 2014 #160

So that was YOU stalking me around the internet? stone space Jun 2014 #189

Lemme guess: Same shit we learn every time someone tries that? Iggo May 2014 #135

What's that? cbayer May 2014 #138

Confusing, isn't it? You don't know if you should agree or rebuke. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #163

225 replies, nearly 3600 views! JNelson6563 Jun 2014 #226

The room has plenty of nice things. cbayer Jun 2014 #227