Religion

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)

118. Ok, and I thank you for that, however,

Fri May 30, 2014, 01:06 PM

May 2014

this doesn't resolve anything, as I am still forced to pay taxes that fund churches operational costs, and you still oppose removing that exemption.

In other words, I am being aggressed against, and you support that aggression.

I am not one to table such issues.

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What did I learn from asking believers and atheists what they want from each other? [View all] Htom Sirveaux May 2014 OP

Curious as to where you got all this skepticscott May 2014 #1

As opposed to all the threads in A&A about who's ignoring who in Religion? rug May 2014 #17

. hrmjustin May 2014 #22

If you agreed with any of what I had to say, Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #43

This from the man who falsely accused me of lying Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #191

.... Goblinmonger Jun 2014 #194

I was not so much complaining about scott's slandering me Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #195

Libel? AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #197

First, the statement by Dawkins is in his 2006 article "Religion's Real Child Abuse" Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #198

Libel! AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #199

Did you ever read A P Herbert's Uncommon Law? Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #211

No, but that's pretty funny. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #221

Yeah, because YOU FABRICATED A QUOTE to bash him with. trotsky Jun 2014 #202

And you are simply lying Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #212

I love it when you bring this up! trotsky Jun 2014 #217

I find it interesting Goblinmonger Jun 2014 #219

That's a pretty big article. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #222

I'm just trying to tell you Goblinmonger Jun 2014 #203

No, you basically made shit up, and were forced to admit it skepticscott Jun 2014 #204

LOL whoops. trotsky Jun 2014 #205

Aren't you the one who whines about quote mining a safe haven? rug Jun 2014 #220

No, I cited him quite accurately Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #213

But you didn't QUOTE him accurately. trotsky Jun 2014 #218

IBTS EvolveOrConvolve May 2014 #2

Don't just stand there, fling away! Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #3

While some may not agree, I think your intent was good EvolveOrConvolve May 2014 #4

Maybe you could take the opportunity to weigh in. cbayer May 2014 #100

Judge for yourself. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #5

Thank you for that! nt Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #8

This seems very insightful to me... TygrBright May 2014 #6

Well done. hrmjustin May 2014 #7

Apparently it is unclear to believers that to many non-believers their beliefs are fairy tales. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #9

Would you get different reactions Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #10

their beliefs are not "mistaken" they are "made up stories". Warren Stupidity May 2014 #11

As a claim of factual history, yes, Hansel and Gretel is mistaken. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #12

You can prove that? Warren Stupidity May 2014 #14

There's got to be a better way to express non-factuality. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #19

Well, if someone wants to acknowledge skepticscott May 2014 #23

I get infuriated when they tell me I believe in fairy-tales. I really believe in my faith. hrmjustin May 2014 #25

And you, like they, would like to be empathized with. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #27

Well I don't tell them their views are fairy tales. hrmjustin May 2014 #29

This message was self-deleted by its author Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #30

Yeah, frustration. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #31

There are some that no mattered what I said they turned it into a fight. hrmjustin May 2014 #35

Perhaps sometimes, that's the only way. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #38

But I will not let them insult me without a fight. hrmjustin May 2014 #39

What if someone wants a fight? Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #40

I answer their posts. I try to be civil but I am sure there are examples of where I was not. hrmjustin May 2014 #42

It's a process. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #45

I think your honest but this room along with the I/P room is the most contentious room on du so hrmjustin May 2014 #48

If I say 'The Rangers suck', am I insulting a team you like, or am I insulting *you*? AtheistCrusader May 2014 #80

And that's pretty much the gist of what's wrong with this place Act_of_Reparation May 2014 #83

That's a great analogy. trotsky May 2014 #85

I also have had personal insults here. hrmjustin May 2014 #91

I've been called a lot of things on DU. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #93

Ia m not a theocrat and anyone that calls me that I am done with them. hrmjustin May 2014 #94

You may not be, but is it possible that you may have said something in that thread that could be AtheistCrusader May 2014 #95

I disagreed on tax exempt status for houses of worship. I said I am for reform but I am a theocrat. hrmjustin May 2014 #96

I can't tell what happened without more context. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #98

I respect your opinions but I think the exemption should exist. hrmjustin May 2014 #99

Supporting that exemption means forcing me to pay government imposed taxes to support a church. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #104

Thank you for your opinion. hrmjustin May 2014 #105

I sense that you feel offended by the term. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #106

How do you pay for my church? hrmjustin May 2014 #107

Depends on where you live. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #109

Same can be said for other non profits. hrmjustin May 2014 #110

Against which there is no constitutional proscription. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #115

I can respect your principled view. hrmjustin May 2014 #117

Ok, and I thank you for that, however, AtheistCrusader May 2014 #118

Well think tax exempt status for non profits should exist. hrmjustin May 2014 #121

Then we are at an impasse, where your position supports a condition that one might AtheistCrusader May 2014 #123

I support it for all non profits. hrmjustin May 2014 #124

I do not consider tax exempt status of churches as theocracy... LeftishBrit Jun 2014 #190

I, too, vehemently oppose the wars. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #193

Religion has quite a lot to say about war. stone space Jun 2014 #200

The poster I responded to AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #201

I have no idea what you mean by a "differentiation issue". stone space Jun 2014 #206

That poster did not raise it as a religious issue. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #207

My initial post here was to a post of yours, not a post of anybody else. stone space Jun 2014 #208

I'm an atheist, and I have no religion. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #209

I wish we lived in a world Goblinmonger Jun 2014 #210

Direct insults Dorian Gray Jun 2014 #184

The insult was part of an ongoing okasha Jun 2014 #186

I know very well Dorian Gray Jun 2014 #187

But suppose you said "the Rangers suck" to an actual member of the Rangers? Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #141

Hmm. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #173

They so obviously don't suck Dorian Gray Jun 2014 #183

Which athiest beliefs are fairy tales? Warren Stupidity May 2014 #67

Actually there is a great atheist fairy tale "His Dark Materials". Warren Stupidity May 2014 #68

It's a well written trilogy Dorian Gray Jun 2014 #185

Please what I write and don't make stuff up. I never said you guys believe in fairy tales. hrmjustin May 2014 #90

"Well I don't tell them their views are fairy tales" Warren Stupidity May 2014 #126

Yeah I don't tell you that. I don't believe you do. hrmjustin May 2014 #128

You have my permission to point out exactly which atheist beliefs are fairy tales. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #136

No thank you. hrmjustin May 2014 #137

Well see that is why there is no particular equivalency. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #162

I think he is saying AtheistCrusader May 2014 #175

Yeah I got that. I understand why, given that is true, they feel put upon Warren Stupidity May 2014 #177

You got something but that's not it. rug May 2014 #178

Would you accept 'mythology' if not stated as direct, vicious invective? AtheistCrusader May 2014 #57

Mythology is acceptable to me. hrmjustin May 2014 #87

I concur that mythology is an improvement Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #142

I am quite certain there is one participant in this thread that would object, but I'll wait paitent AtheistCrusader May 2014 #174

That doesn't mean that some of the things skepticscott May 2014 #63

Exactly Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #192

Why? Because you say so? trotsky Jun 2014 #196

Right. Saying "believing in the Easter Bunny is more rational than believing in God" shows respect. Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #214

A magical easter bunny violates fewer physical laws. Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #215

It makes for an interesting argument, yes indeed. trotsky Jun 2014 #216

"believers in God aren't as rational as a typical five-year-old". AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #223

My wife and I decided very early on Goblinmonger Jun 2014 #224

Yep. When he's ready to ask, he deserves an honest answer. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #225

Thank you for supporting my point Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #228

I said 'more rational'. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #229

My guess: Goblinmonger Jun 2014 #230

I have certainly bookmarked that post for future reference. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #231

It's particularly bad with FA, but yes, there are plenty of others who love to jump on that. n/t trotsky Jun 2014 #232

Maybe this will give FA something else to complain about Goblinmonger Jun 2014 #233

Of course there is. okasha May 2014 #49

A good suggestion. Is that acceptable, Warren? nt Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #51

No. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #65

I am an atheist, but I don't feel a need to evangelize the faithful. Maedhros May 2014 #125

Yes, I respect their beliefs outside of the religion forum. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #127

I would say to you what I say to religious persons: Maedhros May 2014 #134

If "metaphors not meant literally" captures the same meaning for you as Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #143

It doesn't capture the same meaning skepticscott May 2014 #159

You know what? I almost never use the phrase "fairy tale" unless Warren Stupidity May 2014 #161

That works the first time skepticscott May 2014 #64

Which "nonsense, lies and outright crap" are you specifically referring to? nt Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #144

Well, start with the parts of the Bible skepticscott May 2014 #152

Wait, now I'm confused. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #154

No, the same person isn't doing both at the same time (usually) skepticscott May 2014 #157

"fiction" Warren Stupidity May 2014 #170

Do you prefer "myth"? nt PassingFair May 2014 #176

I have a policy of always telling the truth. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #55

Isn't part of good communication considering your audience? nt Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #145

And who is the "audience" in this case? skepticscott May 2014 #151

No, but they should be primary. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #153

It's a public discussion board, not a "conversation" skepticscott May 2014 #155

Possibly. It is, however, not my area of expertise. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #172

I would say 'mythology' as a less-abrasive term, but that has been strenuously objected to as well. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #54

It goes back to what I said about people wanting to control how they are labeled. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #56

It becomes difficult to communicate if I am not to use any terms that reflect the un-falsifiable AtheistCrusader May 2014 #58

Mythology is an improvement, and so is Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #146

Nice try but it seems to have failed to make any impression on some. Leontius May 2014 #13

Could this observation itself be seen as provocative? nt Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #15

Why yes, yes it could. trotsky May 2014 #74

If the truth is provocative it's still the truth. Leontius May 2014 #84

Utter horseshit. trotsky May 2014 #86

There's that smell again. Leontius May 2014 #88

Stay classy, dude. trotsky May 2014 #112

Indeed. okasha May 2014 #16

lol I love it when they get all upset about the "ghost town" that is interfaith. hrmjustin May 2014 #20

Upset? Hardly. Amused, perhaps skepticscott May 2014 #24

Well, that's a deep and meaningful post. rug May 2014 #28

It reflects my position as well. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #59

I hope the hypocrisy of his post does not reflect on you as well. rug May 2014 #71

Yes it is. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #78

Very enlightening links. JNelson6563 May 2014 #82

They're both exceedingly accurate descriptions. rug May 2014 #108

Oh yes, let's take them one by one. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #111

Let's not. I don't like apologetics. rug May 2014 #113

Well, at least you could stop attributing bullshit to me. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #116

Actually, that is the oft-stated position of your three hosts over there. Take it up with them. rug May 2014 #119

I shall. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #120

Keep me posted. rug May 2014 #122

The point, Justin, is that you have a forum that is exactly what you want this Warren Stupidity May 2014 #66

Well Warren I am not asking to impose new rules in this room. Read my posts more carefully next time hrmjustin May 2014 #89

Well yes you have, but whatever. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #130

link to where I have. hrmjustin May 2014 #131

Maybe we could start by stopping the referrals to "us" and "them". cbayer May 2014 #103

I will try harder next time. hrmjustin May 2014 #114

Thank you. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #147

To be honest I think it is not going to work so I think I will post less in this room. hrmjustin May 2014 #148

yes that would be confusing in your case, I can understand that. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #171

How about we try to make this an opportunity to establish some ground rules cbayer May 2014 #102

It is very nice to see some even-handedness from you, cbayer. trotsky May 2014 #129

It's a small group that I'm talking about. Leontius May 2014 #164

So let's engage with the people that do so civilly and are here for a good adult cbayer May 2014 #165

No, they wouldn't skepticscott May 2014 #167

And exactly who are you speaking for now? rug May 2014 #169

I completely agree with that. rug May 2014 #168

Dishonest people do not want honest communication. rug May 2014 #18

What I see are people testing each other's patience, Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #21

I see people who use other people to reinforce their uncertain certainty. rug May 2014 #26

If people ask for something, Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #32

"Excuse me, may I abuse you while mocking your opinions?" rug May 2014 #33

What of forgiveness, of compassion, of non-attachment? Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #34

We are not going to allow them to walk all over us. hrmjustin May 2014 #36

A perfect response to honest emotion. rug May 2014 #37

Love your enemies, Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #41

As another wise man once said, "I may have to love them but I don't have to like them." rug May 2014 #44

I don't think of them as enemies either. hrmjustin May 2014 #46

Here's a great sermon on the subject. rug May 2014 #50

Isn't there anything that could be done whether others cooperate or not? Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #47

Sure. You can state your mind honestly. If the other doesn't like it, responds unkindly rug May 2014 #52

As I said to atheistcrusader, Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #149

Good communication requires understanding your audience. rug May 2014 #166

One of my history teachers okasha May 2014 #53

My last high school history teacher's graduation advice was: AtheistCrusader May 2014 #60

He'd be right in tune with my theatrical friend okasha May 2014 #61

Some people just want to watch the world burn, I suppose. AtheistCrusader May 2014 #62

"Turning the other cheek" Leontius May 2014 #81

How to better communicate LostOne4Ever May 2014 #69

The whole point of the religion dungeon is to be the place where we disagree about religion. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #70

The whole point of the Religion Group is to discuss. rug May 2014 #72

Good post. Thank you. n/t trotsky May 2014 #75

I agree with a lot of this. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #150

I find it interesting to note that... trotsky May 2014 #73

I find diplomacy Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #158

I'm not an atheist, but PatrickforO May 2014 #76

I couldn't agree more. trotsky May 2014 #77

What I want from believers is: LeftishBrit May 2014 #79

Beautifully stated. okasha May 2014 #92

Those are fair requests on your part and I think they could easily be honored. cbayer May 2014 #97

I think you misunderstand the nature of some of those criticisms.... mike_c May 2014 #132

But does that happen here, in this room? cbayer May 2014 #133

I don't think that I do engage in hateful broad brushing of believers LeftishBrit May 2014 #179

Thoughtful post and I think we agree on much more than we might disagree on. cbayer May 2014 #180

Conversion attempts haven't happened to my knowledge; I was giving that as an example of what I LeftishBrit May 2014 #181

Well, I think it's clear that both believers and non-believers are welcome here. cbayer May 2014 #182

To say you've never seen that is a little hard to believe, cbayer. trotsky Jun 2014 #188

This has been very well done and I, for one, truly appreciate it. cbayer May 2014 #101

From interfaith room LostOne4Ever May 2014 #139

Thanks for this. cbayer May 2014 #140

That is a good way of looking at it LostOne4Ever May 2014 #156

The issue, imo, is the ability to push back in a civil manner cbayer May 2014 #160

So that was YOU stalking me around the internet? stone space Jun 2014 #189

Lemme guess: Same shit we learn every time someone tries that? Iggo May 2014 #135

What's that? cbayer May 2014 #138

Confusing, isn't it? You don't know if you should agree or rebuke. Warren Stupidity May 2014 #163

225 replies, nearly 3600 views! JNelson6563 Jun 2014 #226

The room has plenty of nice things. cbayer Jun 2014 #227