Religion

intaglio

(8,170 posts)

67. Because, largely, your original response was pretty uncontroversial

Thu Jun 19, 2014, 08:26 AM

Jun 2014

Highlighting the work done by charities because they are religious comes down to special pleading; in essence saying "we're religious, aren't we good?" This assumption of virtue is then used to evade responsibility for the cruelties inflicted by those within a religion on others. The dreadful Bon Secours nuns in Ireland were a charity doing good works because of their faith - except those supposed good works were tainted by the victimisation and ill treatment of those they were, supposedly, helping.

Secular charities do not highlight their (lack of) faith they just get on with the work - is it too much to expect religious charities to do the same? Charitable work should be praised because it is praiseworthy not because it is a duty expected by a deity.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

134 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Yes, Religion Can Still Be A Force For Good In The World. Here Are 100 Examples How [View all] cbayer Jun 2014 OP

Saying religion "can be" a force for good is missing the point gcomeau Jun 2014 #1

Great post. trotsky Jun 2014 #2

It's a "great post" only if you approve of anti-religious bigotry Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #75

LMAO! trotsky Jun 2014 #87

No, we dislike it when skepticscott Jun 2014 #91

That statement was bigoted Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #94

Your main problem right now, FA, apart from your incredible dishonesty... trotsky Jun 2014 #95

Unlike you, Trotsky, I am ALWAYS honest. Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #98

Fascinating that you yourself can post the definition, but you cannot see that the poster in questio AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #100

BWAH HA HA HA HA trotsky Jun 2014 #107

.... Goblinmonger Jun 2014 #96

As expected, all you have is lame hand-waving skepticscott Jun 2014 #97

OK, show me that the statement Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #99

Um, it doesn't say your extrapolation at all. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #101

OK. Here it goes Goblinmonger Jun 2014 #103

Fortinbras also abused 'undermines' to mean 'incapable of rational thought.' AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #104

Didn't want to confuse him. Goblinmonger Jun 2014 #105

In your mind it is saying that religious people are incapable skepticscott Jun 2014 #118

If it is not say that religious people are incapable of rational thought, then what does it say? Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #134

Apparently you can't skepticscott Jun 2014 #92

Yeah, I can't accept bigotry Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #93

You can't IDENTIFY bigotry. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #102

Yeah, the kind of religion you describe has big issues. Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #3

It goes well beyond the notion of "God's testing us to see if we obey". trotsky Jun 2014 #8

Some kinds of Calvinism are like that. Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #9

How do you suppose someone who believes abortion is murder... trotsky Jun 2014 #11

Poorly, in many cases. Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #17

In your opinion. trotsky Jun 2014 #19

Speaking of holy texts... Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #22

Your link doesn't go any where. Is it supposed to? Jim__ Jun 2014 #23

Thanks, fixed! Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #24

Thanks. Jim__ Jun 2014 #25

Yes, various sects in Christianity generally all have their preferred translations. trotsky Jun 2014 #27

Then I leave you to your opinions, Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #30

Opinions indeed. trotsky Jun 2014 #36

How the various religions define love isn't the problem Act_of_Reparation Jun 2014 #21

That was an example of a tradition making morality Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #33

As I admittedly lack the philosophical chops... Act_of_Reparation Jun 2014 #34

"The kind of religion you describe" is exactly the kind of religion skepticscott Jun 2014 #12

I agree that there are a lot of conservative religious folks out there. Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #18

Yup. Hissyspit Jun 2014 #52

And the fallout/unintended consequences? AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #4

Thank you for pointing that out. Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #5

Oh my. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #6

You're welcome! Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #7

Yeah the comment suggesting the schools be burnt down was really fantastic. Leontius Jun 2014 #14

It's a little extreme. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #15

Here's what you actually have skepticscott Jun 2014 #10

I was going to say the same thing. rickford66 Jun 2014 #131

If anyone could do it, why is it primarily religious people who are doing it? rug Jun 2014 #132

all of those "good" things can be done 100% as well without any religion nt msongs Jun 2014 #13

Agree. But a lot of them aren't being done. cbayer Jun 2014 #16

Two things: trotsky Jun 2014 #20

Great atricle! My parish made the list by the way. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #26

That is so cool, justin! cbayer Jun 2014 #28

No we don't use parishioners for this program. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #29

But all this kind of help can be provided by any charity intaglio Jun 2014 #31

I don't think it merits special praise, but cbayer Jun 2014 #32

Or funded by the taxpayer. trotsky Jun 2014 #35

Sorry to be repetitive, but I think the context really counts - pinto Jun 2014 #37

Sure context counts. trotsky Jun 2014 #38

Both govt and secular groups support various programs. Often govt does it thru the grant process. pinto Jun 2014 #39

Then how about we drop the nonsense about religious groups being the only thing... trotsky Jun 2014 #40

I'm not going to get into this roundabout. When I have input, I'll post. pinto Jun 2014 #42

You already drove yourself right into it. trotsky Jun 2014 #43

Thank you I agree with your points. phil89 Jun 2014 #61

OK. Suggest you confront the RW agenda and leave personal issues to the side. pinto Jun 2014 #63

Puh-lease. trotsky Jun 2014 #66

Which, of course, no one said Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2014 #76

Bwah ha ha ha! trotsky Jun 2014 #88

Why shouldn't they be extolled? hrmjustin Jun 2014 #41

Where, if anywhere, did I say they should not be extolled? intaglio Jun 2014 #44

How are they attracting special praise? hrmjustin Jun 2014 #45

Because they are being singled out as examples of why religion can be a force for good intaglio Jun 2014 #46

Well it is an atricle specifically designed to show the good religion does. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #47

Why? I thought all religion was, by definition, good intaglio Jun 2014 #48

There are plenty of charites both religious and secular have gone bad or are frauds. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #49

So that boils down to religion not being the reason for the charitable works in the OP intaglio Jun 2014 #50

The articles point is to show religion at its best. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #51

And how does that has relevance to my previous comment? intaglio Jun 2014 #56

I am sorry but I don't get your complaint about this article. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #58

That is now obvious n/t intaglio Jun 2014 #59

Well you have a good night. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #60

What's wrong with that? okasha Jun 2014 #82

Ok there are several varied points in your post intaglio Jun 2014 #83

Thanks, that helps me understand where you're coming from okasha Jun 2014 #84

We'll have to agree to differ about the "angle" - for now intaglio Jun 2014 #86

You're right. okasha Jun 2014 #89

Continued from above. Phone doesn't handle edits well. okasha Jun 2014 #90

"remember the church worker does not only want to save the body" goldent Jun 2014 #85

Because they're the ones doing it. rug Jun 2014 #53

They are being extolled, in this instance, because of their religions intaglio Jun 2014 #54

They are being extolled because they are - and have been - doing it. rug Jun 2014 #55

So their faith has nothing to do with their works intaglio Jun 2014 #57

I'm sure it has a lot do do with it but they're being acknowledged for their works not their faith. rug Jun 2014 #62

But the reason for the article is to exemplify faith intaglio Jun 2014 #64

I am curious as to why you didn't reply to my response to you. cbayer Jun 2014 #65

Because, largely, your original response was pretty uncontroversial intaglio Jun 2014 #67

I don't think it is special pleading at all. cbayer Jun 2014 #68

But cbayer, why the need to praise and single out belief or even non-belief when it comes to... trotsky Jun 2014 #69

Because it is a vital part of her agenda skepticscott Jun 2014 #70

It's almost if they are making $$$ or get their livelihood from religion. n/t Fix The Stupid Jun 2014 #71

I know, from selling books skepticscott Jun 2014 #72

If you actually check my posts I have said, explicitly, that good should be extolled intaglio Jun 2014 #73

Well we will have to disagree on this because I don't cbayer Jun 2014 #74

The organization teaches youths to work together to solve problems. Ilsa Jun 2014 #77

Exactly. cbayer Jun 2014 #78

The tip of a very large iceberg goldent Jun 2014 #79

Yes, and the vast majority neither get nor seek recognition. cbayer Jun 2014 #80

Agreed! Without these groups this country would have deeper problems. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #81

None of which require religion phil89 Jun 2014 #106

True but the point of the article ix to point out the good religion does. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #108

So, religion does it? AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #109

I can not say what they would be doing if they wrre not believers but I suspect many would be hrmjustin Jun 2014 #110

I might accept the OP's source claim that it CAN be a force for good, but AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #112

No I think we can just praise these people and leave it at that. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #113

That wasn't the point of the OP. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #114

I think it was to praise religion. The horror! hrmjustin Jun 2014 #117

I'm sure it was. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #120

Posts are posted here to show the bad side of religion. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #123

I suspect this is a psychological thing. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #125

And those ops should be challenged like we challenge thebthreads that show religion in a bad light. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #126

No, no, no!!!! cbayer Jun 2014 #116

thanks cbayer. You would think it is a great sin to praise these organizations from the responses hrmjustin Jun 2014 #119

It is a great sin you apologist!! cbayer Jun 2014 #121

Thanks for posting this op. The responses unfortunately are predictable. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #124

Yet no one actually said that. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #122

And no where in the article does it say that it does require religion. cbayer Jun 2014 #111

First let's see what data you are basing this claim on: trotsky Jun 2014 #115

No one says that religious groups never do good LynnTTT Jun 2014 #127

Actually, most religious charities have no such condition. cbayer Jun 2014 #128

And that claim is based on what facts? skepticscott Jun 2014 #130

Sorry but most religious charities do not require this. Where did you get that from? hrmjustin Jun 2014 #129

"An atheist can also do good.' rug Jun 2014 #133