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saras

(6,670 posts)
21. Nope. Belief is a mental activity, not an abstract binary opposition.
Sat Mar 10, 2012, 09:32 PM
Mar 2012

Disbelief and absence of belief are two different places on an abstract continuum - absence of belief is the simple refusal to DO belief as an action. Disbelief is USUALLY belief in the opposite of a hypothesis. It can be knowledge (i.e. the accumulated weight of opinion that is well-tested from many perspectives, especially rationalist ones) about the opposite of a hypothesis, but of course knowledge is gradually obtained, and is also not a binary yes/no phenomenon.

A simple test of an opinion versus a belief: what evidence would it require for you to change your mind, and what straightforward experiment could produce this evidence? If there isn't any evidence that would change your mind, you are believing in something. If you can't frame the evidence and experiment in terms agreeable to the person you're discussing it with, then you need to back up until you DO agree and start over, even if that means defining the word "be".

If you think that by "believe six impossible things before breakfast" that I mean "THINK six impossible things before breakfast" then you're missing the point entirely. It would be MUCH better to have this discussion while lying side-by-side in interactive MRI machines where we could see the nature of different states as we enter them.

"Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true." - Wikipedia
There's nothing about the definition that requires you stay in the same state for a long period of time. There are reasons that most people do that, but they aren't utterly compelling, and in fact I'm suggesting that in modern society keeping them fixed may be bad for you.

If you believe in a deity about six times an hour, on the average, for less than three seconds each time (but with a really wide standard deviation, especially during sex), and they are contradictory deities with conflicting universes, and most of the time between you drift between being an experientialist and a materialist except that about every two minutes, usually for only a few seconds unless you are with someone else, you are a savage mocker, sometimes of your own religions but mostly of others, and the deity you spend the most time with (aside from sex) is a psychedelic joke in the first place, and you are a practicing member of a few different joke religions - are you a theist or atheist? Yes or no?

I think your first mistaken assumption is that everyone else's mind works just like yours but has different and usually inferior contents. Don't fret - most people make this assumption, and almost all media reinforce it as a message. Corporations desperately want it to be true. But it's not true.

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That's a perfect illustration of the differences -nt NAO Mar 2012 #1
Here's the definition longship Mar 2012 #2
Agnostic = Atheist? No, not so much. TalkingDog Mar 2012 #5
Not equal words, but not mutually exclusive Silent3 Mar 2012 #11
It would be equally accurate to say skepticscott Mar 2012 #26
This is correct. n/t trotsky Mar 2012 #31
W/B skepticscott Mar 2012 #42
So I'm seeing. trotsky Mar 2012 #43
Yes, so much longship Mar 2012 #17
They are not equal, nor interchangable. I agree that there is overlap in people who are both. TalkingDog Mar 2012 #22
How is that, I'm curious longship Mar 2012 #23
I suppose if you decide to act as if there is a God... Silent3 Mar 2012 #27
Quite easily dmallind Mar 2012 #37
Or this. rug Mar 2012 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author cleanhippie Mar 2012 #4
Get back to me when they use that billboard to kill somebody. 2ndAmForComputers Mar 2012 #6
It's a good thing non sequiturs don't kill. rug Mar 2012 #7
Unlike what's depicted in the first two panels of the comic in the OP. 2ndAmForComputers Mar 2012 #12
Let it go, man, he is just trying to hijack the thread. cleanhippie Mar 2012 #14
Surely not! mr blur Mar 2012 #25
And the problem is what? aka-chmeee Mar 2012 #9
"Racist Billboard Saying “Slaves Obey Your Master” Sparks Outrage" rug Mar 2012 #10
Do you think the billboard is racist? ZombieHorde Mar 2012 #19
I think LeftishBrit put it well in the other thread. rug Mar 2012 #20
If we started going door to door like they do, aka-chmeee Mar 2012 #8
I'm a fundamentalist militant agnostic. I cannot know. You cannot know. NO ONE can know. saras Mar 2012 #13
Thats great, but do you BELIEVE in a god or not? cleanhippie Mar 2012 #15
I regard belief as a dangerous practice, like violent force, best reserved for extreme situations saras Mar 2012 #16
That has nothing to do with theism or atheism. cleanhippie Mar 2012 #18
Nope. Belief is a mental activity, not an abstract binary opposition. saras Mar 2012 #21
I feel like we are unable to communicate. cleanhippie Mar 2012 #28
Speaking of broken records. And debatable at that. nt humblebum Mar 2012 #24
Then debate it... deacon_sephiroth Mar 2012 #29
Well your portrayal of atheists as nothing more than militant noise makers, humblebum Mar 2012 #30
quite a list deacon_sephiroth Mar 2012 #32
Reality is what it is. But as usual, you attempt to put some spin on it. nt humblebum Mar 2012 #33
I agree deacon_sephiroth Mar 2012 #34
Well when you spin as often as you do, it's hard not to humblebum Mar 2012 #35
less singing, more bringing. n/t deacon_sephiroth Mar 2012 #36
I have already proven my case, and the incidents listed pretty much equal the humblebum Mar 2012 #38
case closed in post 32 then I guess n/t deacon_sephiroth Mar 2012 #39
Case proven at #32, but this could be pointlessly drawn out endlessly. However, humblebum Mar 2012 #40
certainly deacon_sephiroth Mar 2012 #41
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