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AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
28. Oh no you don't.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 02:22 PM
Jun 2014

"In no way do I think they are morally culpable for the decisions of the larger organization, particularly if they have absolutely no say in those decisions."

The RCC lobbies with dollars given to the church by the members. Pays lawyers with dollars given to the church by members.
The RCC uses the 'weight' of it's membership when lobbying legislators to move one way or another on a particular issue.

Membership is not zero-cost and has an impact on issues the individual member may either not care about, or explicitly disapprove of.



"There are groups of catholics who have formed to fight for particular changes."

Yes, and we've discussed pastors/individual churches taking a stand on these issues, getting chucked wholesale out of the RCC.

"and before someone is "encouraged""

I said, specifically in the case of a top-down authoritarian org, they are under no obligation to stay if they find a church that reflects their values. Authoritarian entities like the RCC are by-design resistant to change 'from within'.

I never said they had to leave. I never said I demanded they do so. I said

"The only way for the religious left to change a 'faith' that includes doctrine of the sort I mentioned, really, is to leave it and find greener pastures in keeping with their faith."

That's a statement about effectiveness, not a demand or a decree.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

"Within the past year BJU has opened its own investigation into sexual abuse and rape" beam me up scottie Jun 2014 #1
No surprise. madamesilverspurs Jun 2014 #2
There's nothing even human okasha Jun 2014 #3
Some people on this board would call that skepticscott Jun 2014 #6
And the jury results are in... aikoaiko Jun 2014 #46
I'm pretty sure I know which troll sent that alert. rug Jun 2014 #47
Me, too. okasha Jun 2014 #48
It's time to shut that shithole down. InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2014 #55
I wonder, then, how it is that so many are fooled by it. Let's ask a feminist from 100 years ago. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #4
This message was self-deleted by its author Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #11
The founder of BJU was a spokesman for the Ku Klux Klan. n/t radicalliberal Jun 2014 #5
They promote a brutal form of fascist Christianity. Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #12
When I was coaching college debate, we debated them once in a while Goblinmonger Jun 2014 #14
Wow, now I'm curious. Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #18
No they were horrible. Goblinmonger Jun 2014 #19
I was going to ask this Dorian Gray Jun 2014 #50
I'll say what I said in the thread in GD Dorian Gray Jun 2014 #7
But of course, it was all social and political skepticscott Jun 2014 #9
Did I say any of that? Dorian Gray Jun 2014 #49
Did I say you did? skepticscott Jun 2014 #56
Sickening, but not surprising. cbayer Jun 2014 #8
I found the root sin that caused their attack. Iggo Jun 2014 #10
This. n/t Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #13
I agreed with your post 11 before you deleted it. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #15
I deleted it because Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #16
You really should read those in context before passing judgement on me. cbayer Jun 2014 #17
Thank you for the context. Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #20
Worse than just having 'no impact' when speaking out. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #22
It is a very complex and personal decision. cbayer Jun 2014 #24
Oh no you don't. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #28
Oh, yes I do. cbayer Jun 2014 #29
You introduced 'obligation', not me. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #32
I am much more interested in seeing people leave groups that cbayer Jun 2014 #33
Then that is the source of our disagreement. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #34
Yes, it is the source of our disagreement. cbayer Jun 2014 #35
We discussed this before. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #36
Are you a smoker by any chance? cbayer Jun 2014 #37
No, I don't drink or smoke. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #39
Good for you! Big congratulations. cbayer Jun 2014 #41
Oh, I'm still fat. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #42
I think the point you make about self-loathing is an accurate one for cbayer Jun 2014 #43
Well, the first guy to run one, DID die... AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #44
Smoking has been my biggest weakness since I first started at age 12. cbayer Jun 2014 #45
Being able to run in marathons Dorian Gray Jun 2014 #53
I quit smoking 8 years ago Dorian Gray Jun 2014 #52
Thanks for the support, DG. cbayer Jun 2014 #57
Best of luck Dorian Gray Jun 2014 #58
I've done it. cbayer Jun 2014 #59
Your understanding of ecclesiology is poor. rug Jun 2014 #38
I agree. It all kinda looks the same to me, fair point. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #40
I gave the precise context. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #21
No, AC. The precise context would be links to the quotes so cbayer Jun 2014 #25
I described the context precisely. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #26
No, you described your perspective. cbayer Jun 2014 #27
Disagreements don't get much more black and white than that thread you linked. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #31
+100 okasha Jun 2014 #23
Too bad BJU doesn't get that. cbayer Jun 2014 #30
Essentially Dorian Gray Jun 2014 #51
He needs his ass kicked and look for the root cause of his asskicking. SummerSnow Jun 2014 #54
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