Religion

zeemike

(18,998 posts)

11. Well the problem is that you make no distinction between belief and an organized religion.

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 12:09 PM

Jun 2014

You want to say that if you believe in a spiritual world then you must be supportive of an organized religon...
All organizations become corrupt with time, but that does not mean that the ideas and principles that they were founded on are false.

And it is corruption that is the negative influence not the beliefe...and I suggest you put the blame on the problem not the idea....that is what I am saying.
When you put the blame on the idea it makes people defensive and drives them to the religion not away from it.

But the NTS argument can work both ways...like no true scientist, and no true progressive. or no true liberal, would believe the childish nonsense, fairy tales, myths, legends...because they know the true and complete nature of reality.
Not much different than those who believe the bible knows it all...and just as arrogant.

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Maher to Stewart: ‘Drugs are good, religion is bad’ and Obama’s spirituality is ‘bullsh*t’ [View all] cbayer Jun 2014 OP

Maher is of course exaggerating for effect. trotsky Jun 2014 #1

That is taking the positive approach. zeemike Jun 2014 #2

Except that is a NTS argument. Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #3

Well you will have to inform me what the NTS argument is. zeemike Jun 2014 #4

What do you mean by edhopper Jun 2014 #5

no true scotsman. This argument is so frequently made here that I mistakenly believed it could be Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #7

no true scotsman Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #6

Well the problem is that you make no distinction between belief and an organized religion. zeemike Jun 2014 #11

I made no such statement. Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #20

First you say you made no such statement. zeemike Jun 2014 #22

Science does own that. And now refutes it on sold, provable grounds. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #29

And has moved on to more profitable genetic engineering. zeemike Jun 2014 #57

Declaring something a sin, and promulagting that idea to a huge percenatge of the planet AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #61

Well then in that case belief in God is normal too. zeemike Jun 2014 #82

Predisposition to belief in the supernatural is normal. I agree. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #84

Nor does it mean it is a bad thing... zeemike Jun 2014 #91

There are no goals, standards, or purposes to sex in biology LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #99

I thought the theory of evolution negated any need for a design. zeemike Jun 2014 #105

Natural selection does negate the need for a design LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #110

purpose does not implies design. zeemike Jun 2014 #114

Purpose is synonymous with goal LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #137

Well it seems we have descended into the meaning of words. zeemike Jun 2014 #139

Many debates end up being about the meaning of words LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #143

You profoundly misunderstand the Theory of Evolution. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #116

The difference between design and purpose is time. zeemike Jun 2014 #118

Don't play the wounded animal. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #119

Not at all. zeemike Jun 2014 #124

I said you are profoundly ignorant of the theory of evolution. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #125

And I agreed with you. zeemike Jun 2014 #127

Not my *my* standards. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #128

Well I just assumed your standards are the same as academia standards. zeemike Jun 2014 #129

"I thought the theory of evolution negated any need for a design." AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #134

Well if there is no designer there can be no design. zeemike Jun 2014 #135

I already explained this to you twice. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #136

And of course "Design out of chaos" is a proven theory zeemike Jun 2014 #140

Of course its peer reviewed. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #144

I was talking about the design out of chaos part. zeemike Jun 2014 #146

It's a paraphrase. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #147

Well I am sorry my posts frustrate you. zeemike Jun 2014 #149

If ONLY this was a debate. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #150

So it is not a debate zeemike Jun 2014 #151

Yup. See post 105 again, and re-think what you 'thought'. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #169

you left out 2. purpose, plan, or intention that exists ... in a material object. Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #179

Well as I have tried to point out before zeemike Jun 2014 #180

Offhand I can think of two purposes to sex. rug Jun 2014 #106

Do you mean biological or personal? LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #111

Biologically, sex continues a species and is the vehicle of evolution. rug Jun 2014 #121

Oh? LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #138

Are you denying the role sexual reproduction plays in evolution? rug Jun 2014 #155

I am denying that evolution has any purpose or goal. LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #156

An advantage to what? rug Jun 2014 #158

An advantage to it passing its genes to the next generation (nt) LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #159

Why is that an advantage? rug Jun 2014 #160

It is thought that it is advantageous because it confers the organism greater LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #161

An advantage is an end. rug Jun 2014 #162

By what definition do you reach that conclusion? LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #164

End is also a synonym for goal. rug Jun 2014 #165

Water does not flow uphill LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #166

Yet it always seeks the means of survival. rug Jun 2014 #167

Except when it evolves a species into a dead end... LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #168

Nihilism itself is a dead end. rug Jun 2014 #170

Again that is your belief LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #181

No, nihilism is your belief. And it is nothing more than that. rug Jun 2014 #182

Never claimed nihilism was your belief (nt). LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #184

That's depressing. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #117

Tell me about it. rug Jun 2014 #122

Um, no. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #115

Well I doubt that I will ever be able to explain to you zeemike Jun 2014 #120

There you go mis-using 'purpose' again. Explain cats. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #123

Why should we talk about cats? zeemike Jun 2014 #126

Cats, like all placental mammals, appear to share a common ancestor. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #130

So let me understand your point. zeemike Jun 2014 #131

No. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #133

And yet it is pleasure that motivates in humans. zeemike Jun 2014 #148

Call it a stretch all you want. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #173

Well sure, you can use a hammer as a doorstop zeemike Jun 2014 #174

I can't have kids. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #175

You are confusing morality with religion hueymahl Jun 2014 #79

Not necessarily. Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #9

that would just be a revealed truth that happened to correspond to observed reality Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #10

I agree that bad beliefs are not less religious for being bad. Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #12

I think your argument ends up effectivelty denying the existence of an external omnipotent deity. Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #19

How does it deny that? n/t Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #21

If there are only "errant" messages from god Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #23

Are you saying that the point of gods is to declare particular ideas certain and indisputable? Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #25

pretty much sums up traditional religious belief systems. Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #70

"You can't just carve out all the belief systems you don't wish to defend..." goldent Jun 2014 #112

Science, not so much. Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #113

Um, no. truebrit71 Jun 2014 #53

Completely agree. trotsky Jun 2014 #55

Agreed. truebrit71 Jun 2014 #56

And, like most absolutist opinions, is wrong. rug Jun 2014 #87

Not really. truebrit71 Jun 2014 #100

I take it as an insult that he calls the president's faith a lie. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #8

This message was self-deleted by its author edhopper Jun 2014 #13

That's not what Maher said. Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #15

Oh edhopper Jun 2014 #17

That's the thing that bugs me too Dorian Gray Jun 2014 #14

You don't think it is even remotely possible that politicians pretend to be religious? Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #24

Doh, and grass is green; unless it turns brown InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2014 #78

It's possible anybody would do it Dorian Gray Jun 2014 #85

It is disgusting and he should apologize for it. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #26

How is not believing someone "hatred"? trotsky Jun 2014 #27

Honestly Dorian Gray Jun 2014 #86

Didn't they date? hrmjustin Jun 2014 #88

He doesn't attend services. Neither did Bush. But, neither did I and I merrily Jun 2014 #176

So Maher says that, and he's a jerk. trotsky Jun 2014 #16

Bill Maher is an entertainer. He makes his money off of saying really outrageous things. cbayer Jun 2014 #30

lol. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #31

I do think edhopper Jun 2014 #18

Do you have proof? ForgoTheConsequence Jun 2014 #28

Just my opinion edhopper Jun 2014 #34

What in the world would lead you to say that? cbayer Jun 2014 #32

Just my sense of the man edhopper Jun 2014 #35

No, you can think he is whatever you think he is. cbayer Jun 2014 #39

Plenty of politicians are believers edhopper Jun 2014 #41

I think many politicians, like most people, keep their cbayer Jun 2014 #43

And there you generalize edhopper Jun 2014 #47

You are correct. I did generalize and retract that. cbayer Jun 2014 #52

Accepted edhopper Jun 2014 #59

I agree with what you are saying here. cbayer Jun 2014 #62

I enjoy Maher's show edhopper Jun 2014 #65

I iike parts of it. cbayer Jun 2014 #66

He's a comedian, and if he makes me laugh edhopper Jun 2014 #68

I am a huge fan of comedy and stand up in particular. cbayer Jun 2014 #69

Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee edhopper Jun 2014 #74

What's the difference okasha Jun 2014 #58

I didn't say atheist edhopper Jun 2014 #60

I used "agnostic/atheist" okasha Jun 2014 #63

I don't "hope" Obama is agnostic edhopper Jun 2014 #67

And who would that be? AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #73

At least you don't understand the argument Goblinmonger Jun 2014 #80

Eh? I'm not making fun okasha Jun 2014 #81

I still haven't seen an answer to your original question. rug Jun 2014 #89

We're obviously not going to. okasha Jun 2014 #92

I answered edhopper Jun 2014 #98

Falling back on okasha Jun 2014 #101

That you see no difference edhopper Jun 2014 #102

But I didn't say I saw no difference okasha Jun 2014 #103

That you think the motivations of both are the same edhopper Jun 2014 #104

Didn't say that, either. okasha Jun 2014 #109

Well, underlying the assumption you and many other believers have made about Hitler seems to be: trotsky Jun 2014 #40

Some biographers insist that Hitler was a Catholic; altar boy as a matter of fact Brettongarcia Jun 2014 #132

Obama is a devote Christian. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #33

Maybe edhopper Jun 2014 #36

This message was self-deleted by its author hrmjustin Jun 2014 #37

many of us question the existence of God. This is nothing new for believers. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #38

He's a politician edhopper Jun 2014 #42

I believe him and see no reason to question his faith. what makes you question his faith? hrmjustin Jun 2014 #45

His background, schooling, edhopper Jun 2014 #48

ok but I take him at his word. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #50

That's fine too. edhopper Jun 2014 #51

I agree, more or less Act_of_Reparation Jun 2014 #44

Technically everyone is agnostic Lordquinton Jun 2014 #46

Point taken. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #49

And those few who are not are some of the most outrageously annoying people on earth. cbayer Jun 2014 #54

nice broadbrush smear there cbayer. Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #71

Alert happy? hrmjustin Jun 2014 #72

It's mostly believers who claim to not be agnostic Lordquinton Jun 2014 #75

I don't know if that's accurate or not, but they are obnoxious whether they be cbayer Jun 2014 #107

It's only not worth keeping score over because you don't like the results Lordquinton Jun 2014 #153

I have no idea what you are talking about. cbayer Jun 2014 #157

I want Pat Robertson to lose. trotsky Jun 2014 #171

Lose what? He didn't even win anything in 1988. rug Jun 2014 #183

Not true. A person whose view is that they know is not an agnostic. eomer Jun 2014 #64

Yea, I know that's how it is often applied Lordquinton Jun 2014 #76

Do you find that to be true here, because I have never seen that. cbayer Jun 2014 #108

I never said here Lordquinton Jun 2014 #152

So, you don't find it to be true here then? cbayer Jun 2014 #163

It is about what they claim to believe or disbelieve. Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #142

It's about what they really believe. eomer Jun 2014 #145

not really. Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #141

There is some truth to that Lordquinton Jun 2014 #154

Fair enough, but we have some theists here who claim to be agnostics Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #172

Better living through chemistry? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #77

If Obama was an atheist LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #83

Why? rug Jun 2014 #90

In general LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #93

Do you not think he could be an atheist hiding his atheism? Hence the brief. rug Jun 2014 #94

If his goal was to hide his atheism LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #95

Oh, do you think Hillary is a closet atheist too? rug Jun 2014 #96

Did I say that? LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #97

Did the needle move on the Presidential level? merrily Jun 2014 #177

These are two commedians, telling jokes. How seriously should we take this? Brettongarcia Jun 2014 #178