Religion

okasha

(11,573 posts)

58. What's the difference

Reply to edhopper (Reply #35)

Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:30 PM

Jun 2014

between thinking Obama's a secret Muslim and thinking he's a secret agnostic/atheist?

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Maher to Stewart: ‘Drugs are good, religion is bad’ and Obama’s spirituality is ‘bullsh*t’ [View all] cbayer Jun 2014 OP

Maher is of course exaggerating for effect. trotsky Jun 2014 #1

That is taking the positive approach. zeemike Jun 2014 #2

Except that is a NTS argument. Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #3

Well you will have to inform me what the NTS argument is. zeemike Jun 2014 #4

What do you mean by edhopper Jun 2014 #5

no true scotsman. This argument is so frequently made here that I mistakenly believed it could be Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #7

no true scotsman Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #6

Well the problem is that you make no distinction between belief and an organized religion. zeemike Jun 2014 #11

I made no such statement. Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #20

First you say you made no such statement. zeemike Jun 2014 #22

Science does own that. And now refutes it on sold, provable grounds. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #29

And has moved on to more profitable genetic engineering. zeemike Jun 2014 #57

Declaring something a sin, and promulagting that idea to a huge percenatge of the planet AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #61

Well then in that case belief in God is normal too. zeemike Jun 2014 #82

Predisposition to belief in the supernatural is normal. I agree. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #84

Nor does it mean it is a bad thing... zeemike Jun 2014 #91

There are no goals, standards, or purposes to sex in biology LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #99

I thought the theory of evolution negated any need for a design. zeemike Jun 2014 #105

Natural selection does negate the need for a design LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #110

purpose does not implies design. zeemike Jun 2014 #114

Purpose is synonymous with goal LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #137

Well it seems we have descended into the meaning of words. zeemike Jun 2014 #139

Many debates end up being about the meaning of words LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #143

You profoundly misunderstand the Theory of Evolution. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #116

The difference between design and purpose is time. zeemike Jun 2014 #118

Don't play the wounded animal. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #119

Not at all. zeemike Jun 2014 #124

I said you are profoundly ignorant of the theory of evolution. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #125

And I agreed with you. zeemike Jun 2014 #127

Not my *my* standards. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #128

Well I just assumed your standards are the same as academia standards. zeemike Jun 2014 #129

"I thought the theory of evolution negated any need for a design." AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #134

Well if there is no designer there can be no design. zeemike Jun 2014 #135

I already explained this to you twice. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #136

And of course "Design out of chaos" is a proven theory zeemike Jun 2014 #140

Of course its peer reviewed. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #144

I was talking about the design out of chaos part. zeemike Jun 2014 #146

It's a paraphrase. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #147

Well I am sorry my posts frustrate you. zeemike Jun 2014 #149

If ONLY this was a debate. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #150

So it is not a debate zeemike Jun 2014 #151

Yup. See post 105 again, and re-think what you 'thought'. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #169

you left out 2. purpose, plan, or intention that exists ... in a material object. Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #179

Well as I have tried to point out before zeemike Jun 2014 #180

Offhand I can think of two purposes to sex. rug Jun 2014 #106

Do you mean biological or personal? LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #111

Biologically, sex continues a species and is the vehicle of evolution. rug Jun 2014 #121

Oh? LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #138

Are you denying the role sexual reproduction plays in evolution? rug Jun 2014 #155

I am denying that evolution has any purpose or goal. LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #156

An advantage to what? rug Jun 2014 #158

An advantage to it passing its genes to the next generation (nt) LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #159

Why is that an advantage? rug Jun 2014 #160

It is thought that it is advantageous because it confers the organism greater LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #161

An advantage is an end. rug Jun 2014 #162

By what definition do you reach that conclusion? LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #164

End is also a synonym for goal. rug Jun 2014 #165

Water does not flow uphill LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #166

Yet it always seeks the means of survival. rug Jun 2014 #167

Except when it evolves a species into a dead end... LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #168

Nihilism itself is a dead end. rug Jun 2014 #170

Again that is your belief LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #181

No, nihilism is your belief. And it is nothing more than that. rug Jun 2014 #182

Never claimed nihilism was your belief (nt). LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #184

That's depressing. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #117

Tell me about it. rug Jun 2014 #122

Um, no. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #115

Well I doubt that I will ever be able to explain to you zeemike Jun 2014 #120

There you go mis-using 'purpose' again. Explain cats. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #123

Why should we talk about cats? zeemike Jun 2014 #126

Cats, like all placental mammals, appear to share a common ancestor. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #130

So let me understand your point. zeemike Jun 2014 #131

No. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #133

And yet it is pleasure that motivates in humans. zeemike Jun 2014 #148

Call it a stretch all you want. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #173

Well sure, you can use a hammer as a doorstop zeemike Jun 2014 #174

I can't have kids. AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #175

You are confusing morality with religion hueymahl Jun 2014 #79

Not necessarily. Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #9

that would just be a revealed truth that happened to correspond to observed reality Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #10

I agree that bad beliefs are not less religious for being bad. Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #12

I think your argument ends up effectivelty denying the existence of an external omnipotent deity. Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #19

How does it deny that? n/t Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #21

If there are only "errant" messages from god Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #23

Are you saying that the point of gods is to declare particular ideas certain and indisputable? Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #25

pretty much sums up traditional religious belief systems. Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #70

"You can't just carve out all the belief systems you don't wish to defend..." goldent Jun 2014 #112

Science, not so much. Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #113

Um, no. truebrit71 Jun 2014 #53

Completely agree. trotsky Jun 2014 #55

Agreed. truebrit71 Jun 2014 #56

And, like most absolutist opinions, is wrong. rug Jun 2014 #87

Not really. truebrit71 Jun 2014 #100

I take it as an insult that he calls the president's faith a lie. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #8

This message was self-deleted by its author edhopper Jun 2014 #13

That's not what Maher said. Htom Sirveaux Jun 2014 #15

Oh edhopper Jun 2014 #17

That's the thing that bugs me too Dorian Gray Jun 2014 #14

You don't think it is even remotely possible that politicians pretend to be religious? Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #24

Doh, and grass is green; unless it turns brown InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2014 #78

It's possible anybody would do it Dorian Gray Jun 2014 #85

It is disgusting and he should apologize for it. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #26

How is not believing someone "hatred"? trotsky Jun 2014 #27

Honestly Dorian Gray Jun 2014 #86

Didn't they date? hrmjustin Jun 2014 #88

He doesn't attend services. Neither did Bush. But, neither did I and I merrily Jun 2014 #176

So Maher says that, and he's a jerk. trotsky Jun 2014 #16

Bill Maher is an entertainer. He makes his money off of saying really outrageous things. cbayer Jun 2014 #30

lol. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #31

I do think edhopper Jun 2014 #18

Do you have proof? ForgoTheConsequence Jun 2014 #28

Just my opinion edhopper Jun 2014 #34

What in the world would lead you to say that? cbayer Jun 2014 #32

Just my sense of the man edhopper Jun 2014 #35

No, you can think he is whatever you think he is. cbayer Jun 2014 #39

Plenty of politicians are believers edhopper Jun 2014 #41

I think many politicians, like most people, keep their cbayer Jun 2014 #43

And there you generalize edhopper Jun 2014 #47

You are correct. I did generalize and retract that. cbayer Jun 2014 #52

Accepted edhopper Jun 2014 #59

I agree with what you are saying here. cbayer Jun 2014 #62

I enjoy Maher's show edhopper Jun 2014 #65

I iike parts of it. cbayer Jun 2014 #66

He's a comedian, and if he makes me laugh edhopper Jun 2014 #68

I am a huge fan of comedy and stand up in particular. cbayer Jun 2014 #69

Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee edhopper Jun 2014 #74

What's the difference okasha Jun 2014 #58

I didn't say atheist edhopper Jun 2014 #60

I used "agnostic/atheist" okasha Jun 2014 #63

I don't "hope" Obama is agnostic edhopper Jun 2014 #67

And who would that be? AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #73

At least you don't understand the argument Goblinmonger Jun 2014 #80

Eh? I'm not making fun okasha Jun 2014 #81

I still haven't seen an answer to your original question. rug Jun 2014 #89

We're obviously not going to. okasha Jun 2014 #92

I answered edhopper Jun 2014 #98

Falling back on okasha Jun 2014 #101

That you see no difference edhopper Jun 2014 #102

But I didn't say I saw no difference okasha Jun 2014 #103

That you think the motivations of both are the same edhopper Jun 2014 #104

Didn't say that, either. okasha Jun 2014 #109

Well, underlying the assumption you and many other believers have made about Hitler seems to be: trotsky Jun 2014 #40

Some biographers insist that Hitler was a Catholic; altar boy as a matter of fact Brettongarcia Jun 2014 #132

Obama is a devote Christian. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #33

Maybe edhopper Jun 2014 #36

This message was self-deleted by its author hrmjustin Jun 2014 #37

many of us question the existence of God. This is nothing new for believers. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #38

He's a politician edhopper Jun 2014 #42

I believe him and see no reason to question his faith. what makes you question his faith? hrmjustin Jun 2014 #45

His background, schooling, edhopper Jun 2014 #48

ok but I take him at his word. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #50

That's fine too. edhopper Jun 2014 #51

I agree, more or less Act_of_Reparation Jun 2014 #44

Technically everyone is agnostic Lordquinton Jun 2014 #46

Point taken. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #49

And those few who are not are some of the most outrageously annoying people on earth. cbayer Jun 2014 #54

nice broadbrush smear there cbayer. Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #71

Alert happy? hrmjustin Jun 2014 #72

It's mostly believers who claim to not be agnostic Lordquinton Jun 2014 #75

I don't know if that's accurate or not, but they are obnoxious whether they be cbayer Jun 2014 #107

It's only not worth keeping score over because you don't like the results Lordquinton Jun 2014 #153

I have no idea what you are talking about. cbayer Jun 2014 #157

I want Pat Robertson to lose. trotsky Jun 2014 #171

Lose what? He didn't even win anything in 1988. rug Jun 2014 #183

Not true. A person whose view is that they know is not an agnostic. eomer Jun 2014 #64

Yea, I know that's how it is often applied Lordquinton Jun 2014 #76

Do you find that to be true here, because I have never seen that. cbayer Jun 2014 #108

I never said here Lordquinton Jun 2014 #152

So, you don't find it to be true here then? cbayer Jun 2014 #163

It is about what they claim to believe or disbelieve. Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #142

It's about what they really believe. eomer Jun 2014 #145

not really. Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #141

There is some truth to that Lordquinton Jun 2014 #154

Fair enough, but we have some theists here who claim to be agnostics Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #172

Better living through chemistry? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #77

If Obama was an atheist LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #83

Why? rug Jun 2014 #90

In general LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #93

Do you not think he could be an atheist hiding his atheism? Hence the brief. rug Jun 2014 #94

If his goal was to hide his atheism LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #95

Oh, do you think Hillary is a closet atheist too? rug Jun 2014 #96

Did I say that? LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #97

Did the needle move on the Presidential level? merrily Jun 2014 #177

These are two commedians, telling jokes. How seriously should we take this? Brettongarcia Jun 2014 #178