Religion

Brettongarcia

(2,262 posts)

80. Many atheists, particularly the young ones, feel the way you do. But not all.

Mon Jul 14, 2014, 03:42 PM

Jul 2014

Others can't forget centuries of discrimination. Or the continued damage from religious leaders.

As a very mild current example: it appears that many of the 6 Catholic justices on the US Supreme Court are currently deciding - largely on a religious basis - to restrict abortion, and women's health benefits.

Is this current imposition of a religious view on the lives of many, legitimate and good?

Or consider dozens of others of cases. For example, consider the religious-based wars in the Middle East; are they of no concern?

Any atheist should become aware of the damage that religion has done.

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Is our anger as atheists invalid? [View all] EvolveOrConvolve Jul 2014 OP

Who exactly are you speaking for? rug Jul 2014 #1

Many atheists feel anger at centuries of persecution (as "heretics," etc.); if not all Brettongarcia Jul 2014 #57

And many neither accept your premise nor feel anger. rug Jul 2014 #59

If "many" do not accept a view, that still leaves others. Brettongarcia Jul 2014 #67

No doubt there are. But I would not deign to speak for them. rug Jul 2014 #82

But here you are speaking for the ones who don't feel this way Lordquinton Jul 2014 #92

Read again. I asked a question of EvolveorConvolve who could not bring himself to answer. rug Jul 2014 #93

He already answered you in the OP Lordquinton Jul 2014 #95

No he didn't. rug Jul 2014 #96

Yes he did. Curmudgeoness Jul 2014 #145

Those are weasel words not an answer. rug Jul 2014 #146

If the question isn't seen, it cannot be answered. Curmudgeoness Jul 2014 #153

That must explain his need to edit. rug Jul 2014 #154

Technically, "our anger as Atheists" does not imply that all atheists are angry. Brettongarcia Jul 2014 #140

The question was who, not how many. rug Jul 2014 #148

Clearly Rug is playing semantic games to distract us from the substance of the argument Brettongarcia Jul 2014 #158

Yes, the difference between who and how many is entirely semantic. rug Jul 2014 #168

The question was who, not how many. AlbertCat Jul 2014 #160

The question is, who is the "us" postulated by the OP. rug Jul 2014 #169

"Us" seems to include a lot - if not all - atheists. A significant number. Brettongarcia Jul 2014 #171

I don't think there is any data to back up the assumption that cbayer Jul 2014 #174

In my lifetime of experience with atheists, communists? Most were very angry. Today, more chill. Brettongarcia Jul 2014 #175

What is with the comparison of atheists and communists? cbayer Jul 2014 #176

Historically, most communists were atheists. Religion was all but outlawed in the USSR Brettongarcia Jul 2014 #177

Clearly, "our anger as atheists" indicates that EvolveOrConvolve is speaking for those of us Dark n Stormy Knight Jul 2014 #131

Ah, the anonymous unkown multitudes pining for a voice. rug Jul 2014 #152

You also describe the culture of the NSA, which isn't "theist". nt delrem Jul 2014 #2

The NSA seems analogous to non-accountable religious leaders; that's the point Brettongarcia Jul 2014 #58

No, the point was something about "our anger as atheists". nt delrem Jul 2014 #69

It's in Utah, at the south end of the SLC metropolitan area... ;-) truebluegreen Jul 2014 #130

Umm... no. Not really at all. gcomeau Jul 2014 #75

Well, starting from your #1 delrem Jul 2014 #81

Starting, largely ignoring and ending there apparently... gcomeau Jul 2014 #85

(smacks head) I never claimed an identity. delrem Jul 2014 #91

First, that wasn't my list. gcomeau Jul 2014 #108

You win! delrem Jul 2014 #110

You made the point that the list largely described the NSA gcomeau Jul 2014 #144

What are some examples of statements that you feel Htom Sirveaux Jul 2014 #3

It's those sorts of questions that cause it EvolveOrConvolve Jul 2014 #5

Totally not where I was going. Htom Sirveaux Jul 2014 #7

You actually got a bunch of answers in that post Lordquinton Jul 2014 #94

Like I said, not what I was doing. Htom Sirveaux Jul 2014 #113

The baseball bat's been swung enough at my head to know EvolveOrConvolve Jul 2014 #101

Apoplexy accepted rofl rofl snark snark snark aren't they cute blah blah blah Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #15

Religionista, deluded, sky daddy, santa claus, irrational, et cetera. rug Jul 2014 #32

It is refreshing to have that anger validated libodem Jul 2014 #4

You make interesting and heartfelt remarks here. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #6

"it is not appropriate to ridicule us for our beliefs" Why? mr blur Jul 2014 #20

For the same reason it's not appropriate to ridicule the pain and anger that the OP cbayer Jul 2014 #22

It is rude. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #23

"Rude"? Oh, please. If atheists alerted every time somone in this Group was "rude" to one of us, mr blur Jul 2014 #71

First off both sides alert here. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #72

Plenty of beliefs are ridiculed Goblinmonger Jul 2014 #21

Questioning a belief is different than ridiculing it. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #24

We also read some of your posts on a road trip Starboard Tack Jul 2014 #25

I love you, too, Tacky. Goblinmonger Jul 2014 #28

The top-hat smilie fits you EvolveOrConvolve Jul 2014 #100

Why should yours get special treatment? rug Jul 2014 #34

Failure to acknowledge injury to others is a form of psychological Denial Brettongarcia Jul 2014 #60

Wrapping oneself in the garb of persecution is, to say the least, unseemly, if not inaccurate. rug Jul 2014 #61

How about being shot at and wounded in Iraq by fundamentalists? Brettongarcia Jul 2014 #64

No. They're probably shooting at the flag. rug Jul 2014 #84

Not "infidels" or nonbelievers, as they always did? Brettongarcia Jul 2014 #141

Stop basing your geopolitics on Beau Geste. rug Jul 2014 #147

So for Rug, Islamic fundamentalism is not worth consideration? Brettongarcia Jul 2014 #159

Had you truly considered it, you would not had made such an inane remark in the first place. rug Jul 2014 #170

Actually, originally, "Fundamentalists" might apply to either side: Americans and Muslims. Brettongarcia Jul 2014 #172

EvolveOrConvolve does not claim to be "persecuted," but expresses feeling deeply hurt and Dark n Stormy Knight Jul 2014 #132

rug was replying to Brettongarcia okasha Jul 2014 #134

Right you are. I'll edit. Dark n Stormy Knight Jul 2014 #137

Feeling "hurt" and "angry" at being discriminated against probably equals persecution however Brettongarcia Jul 2014 #143

You don't see a distinction between being tortured and feeling hurt and angry? rug Jul 2014 #150

First 1) they equal "persecution." Which 2 in turn historically meant death by torture, for "heresy" Brettongarcia Jul 2014 #161

Thanks for the answer. rug Jul 2014 #167

When believers attack health care - for nonbeliever Pro Choicers say - that can be literally fatal. Brettongarcia Jul 2014 #173

Then you can answer #150. rug Jul 2014 #151

They laugh a lot on road trips. Iggo Jul 2014 #56

Ridicule the beliefs with other atheists IRL or in safe havens online Warpy Jul 2014 #70

Can we ridicule the belief itself edhopper Jul 2014 #26

You can do what you want. I think the better approach is to question it in a respectful manner. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #27

Ask respectfully edhopper Jul 2014 #31

I am talking about when interacting with members here. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #33

Oh. edhopper Jul 2014 #38

Well you have to judge for yourself what you think the poster can handle. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #39

And it depends on edhopper Jul 2014 #40

Creationism is generally considered fair game here. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #41

I think there are a lot of beliefs edhopper Jul 2014 #42

Believers are just as good as ridiculing. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #51

Better. rug Jul 2014 #54

Just bigger egos, apparently. edhopper Jul 2014 #83

Oh, that would be splendid. An ego weighing contest in the Religion Group. rug Jul 2014 #86

How do you weigh edhopper Jul 2014 #88

By the syllable. rug Jul 2014 #89

Length of posts huh? edhopper Jul 2014 #90

This message was self-deleted by its author Iggo Jul 2014 #76

Forget it. Iggo Jul 2014 #79

"question it in a respectful manner?" Warpy Jul 2014 #78

You support shit stirring antagonistic meta bullshit Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #111

I don't expect respect from you. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #112

This message was self-deleted by its author Curmudgeoness Jul 2014 #116

The only surprise was the vote. Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #118

Yep, that was why I was dipped. Curmudgeoness Jul 2014 #124

I was n8t the alerter and I was not hurt. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #120

I believe that. Curmudgeoness Jul 2014 #123

thanks. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #125

Yes. Iggo Jul 2014 #163

I was distinguishing edhopper Jul 2014 #164

Thread winner. AtheistCrusader Jul 2014 #165

Aw shucks edhopper Jul 2014 #166

You make too much sense to post here. rhett o rick Jul 2014 #47

lol. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #50

The problem, as I see it EvolveOrConvolve Jul 2014 #97

This should help libodem Jul 2014 #8

Duzy! hrmjustin Jul 2014 #9

. libodem Jul 2014 #10

Looks kind of like Hokusai's Great Wave. okasha Jul 2014 #11

I bet atheists have that in their temple. rhett o rick Jul 2014 #48

But of course, no atheist ever did exactly this; but religious folks literally did Brettongarcia Jul 2014 #65

When I worked libodem Jul 2014 #68

Some spots might really ressemble Jesus. But seeing others, is just a symptom of obsession Brettongarcia Jul 2014 #74

Very true libodem Jul 2014 #87

Misdirected anger can lead to a repetition of many of the behaviors that made one angry in the first cbayer Jul 2014 #12

im pretty sure you just invalidated everything the op said and told the op it is the op's own fault. Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #16

Ayup. trotsky Jul 2014 #19

I don't think I've ever been abused by religion, per se. Plenty of anger though. AtheistCrusader Jul 2014 #13

Good point; the damage done by religion is often very subtle. Aside from obvious abuses ... Brettongarcia Jul 2014 #62

What have you learnt from it all? Starboard Tack Jul 2014 #14

victim blaming appears to run in the family. Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #17

Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #44

Please spare us edhopper Jul 2014 #49

Here are some results... rexcat Jul 2014 #53

I guess he'll have to revise this post. rug Jul 2014 #55

Indeed! I don't alert much in here but both sides alert. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #63

Really? You're going to insult some DUers by calling them an unsafe group or cult? muriel_volestrangler Jul 2014 #18

This message was self-deleted by its author Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #30

I'm insulting nobody. Just telling it the way I see it. Starboard Tack Jul 2014 #35

Insulting others here is the norm *for you* muriel_volestrangler Jul 2014 #43

That's me. Constantly rude and disruptive, especially when dealing with those who insult me first. Starboard Tack Jul 2014 #46

You think DU is intolerant of your insults? muriel_volestrangler Jul 2014 #52

Oh, I'm sure somebody has already stored it somewhere in the secret archives. rug Jul 2014 #36

Yea, that's helpful EvolveOrConvolve Jul 2014 #99

Tolerant of irrational beliefs? phil89 Jul 2014 #103

it isn't a good thing. But our theist friends here have very thin skins Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #105

I'm so thin skinned that I boast about the length of my ignore list. rug Jul 2014 #107

I have no issue with people challenging a belief. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #109

Funny 'cause you are off demanding kid gloves in another thread. Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #114

I believe I said that I don't think people should be ridiculed for their faith. challenging them is hrmjustin Jul 2014 #115

I also see you are abusing your host status to Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #117

Wow Warren! I gave an opinion. Have you not given an opinion to gd hosts when you were on the waitin hrmjustin Jul 2014 #119

You should stay out of the religion group host Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #121

Wow, just wow! Someone is having a sad day but it is not Jesus nor me sir! hrmjustin Jul 2014 #122

To be fair EvolveOrConvolve Jul 2014 #126

Well I have never seen that, and he knows full well I never said that. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #127

I'm just trying to explain why you're getting shit for posting in that thread EvolveOrConvolve Jul 2014 #128

Thank you and I appreciate it. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #129

To quote a well-known leader of Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #29

+1 Well said. Starboard Tack Jul 2014 #37

I agree. Maybe the better question would be: Is our anger necessary? Jim__ Jul 2014 #73

Again, it's more of what I'm referring to in the OP EvolveOrConvolve Jul 2014 #102

What? You're comparing rape to "being mind-fucked by religion"? rug Jul 2014 #104

EvolveOrConvolve earnestly expresses profound anguish related to "being mind-fucked by religion." Dark n Stormy Knight Jul 2014 #135

Oh, I comprehend him all right. rug Jul 2014 #149

Hurt and anger expressed appropriately TM99 Jul 2014 #45

Much of the value of the study of History, is to examine the past - to predict the future Brettongarcia Jul 2014 #66

I am an atheist and I am not angry at religion. CBGLuthier Jul 2014 #77

Many atheists, particularly the young ones, feel the way you do. But not all. Brettongarcia Jul 2014 #80

Our anger isn't at religion itself EvolveOrConvolve Jul 2014 #98

I'm very angry about what Zeus did at Troy. Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #106

Our anger isn't at religion itself AlbertCat Jul 2014 #162

I hear you. Your anger is valid. Dark n Stormy Knight Jul 2014 #133

Thanks! EvolveOrConvolve Jul 2014 #157

We have very good reason to be angry... MellowDem Jul 2014 #136

Yet the argument from some seems to be, "But, not all religious people do those bad things, Dark n Stormy Knight Jul 2014 #138

That's just the privilege speaking... MellowDem Jul 2014 #139

I agree. Authoritarian oppressors usually don't acknowledge the voices, the pain, of the oppressed. Brettongarcia Jul 2014 #142

There's another group that puts out the "Not all like that" argument Lordquinton Jul 2014 #155

Thanks and great post! EvolveOrConvolve Jul 2014 #156