Religion

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)

121. The reason I found that sarcastic response so annoying is, it takes a very honest person to be willi

Thu Jul 17, 2014, 02:19 PM

Jul 2014

ng to critically re-examine foundational worldviews, and alter them, when the evidence they are aware of, changes.

That's hard. I would never belittle or minimize that. I have a great deal of respect for that man, not just because he's a friend, but because he is, to his core, honest, even when the truth is uncomfortable to him.

The world needs more of that, not less. Certainly it shouldn't be looked down on.

And bringing true, honest information to the attention of some people laboring under a misconception is somehow a negative? I don't even know what to do with that objection. That's actually mind-blowing to me. When I have an opportunity to help someone find and evaluate the truth on their own, I should not do it? Really?

What am I supposed to do with that?

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Describe the God you believe in. [View all] edhopper Jan 2014 OP

And could people be specific? AleksS Jan 2014 #1

They could if they like edhopper Jan 2014 #2

Do you think there is a singular description of god in the bible? cbayer Jan 2014 #3

If someone believes in God edhopper Jan 2014 #5

Agreed, but you asked specifically if it deviated from the god described in their holy book. cbayer Jan 2014 #7

True edhopper Jan 2014 #10

At any rate, it could be a really interesting discussion. cbayer Jan 2014 #12

It was quite a while ago edhopper Jan 2014 #13

I think the Lord's Prayer and the Nicene Creed are interesting, too. Goblinmonger Jan 2014 #4

I say both regularly. arely staircase Jan 2014 #33

Glad you started this thread. trotsky Jan 2014 #6

It has. This is a distraction, I think. AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #9

The Tao that is spoken of safeinOhio Jan 2014 #8

That's fine edhopper Jan 2014 #11

Expect a lot of responses like that skepticscott Jan 2014 #14

I have more of a Taoist view than Buddhist. safeinOhio Jan 2014 #36

I believe in a loving God. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #15

Does a "loving god" commit genocide or total extermination of people? cleanhippie Jan 2014 #23

I think humans did that. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #25

Humans created the great flood that exterminated everyone but Noah? cleanhippie Jan 2014 #27

I think if there was a flood it was not God. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #28

Who did it then? Who told Noah he was gonna do it? cleanhippie Jan 2014 #29

Lol. The bible says that creation was made in a week. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #30

So what parts are and aren't true then? cleanhippie Jan 2014 #37

Imo I take the NT more literally. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #40

What criteria do you use to determine what is and isn't to be taken literally? cleanhippie Jan 2014 #59

I don't believe God killed anyone. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #61

So you are a "cafeteria" christian? cleanhippie Jan 2014 #63

I follow most of the traditional ideas of Christianity but I don't believe 100% like a hrmjustin Jan 2014 #66

So were in agreement then? cleanhippie Jan 2014 #67

The God of the ot is fire and brimstone. The God of the NT is love. I believe in love. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #69

So your god changed? trotsky Jan 2014 #70

I can not speak to that. I will say humans idea of him has evolved. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #73

Right. You take what works for you and leave the rest. cleanhippie Jan 2014 #78

I put things in perspective. I try to ddetermine whati think is just human invention and hrmjustin Jan 2014 #79

Right. We're in agreement then. cleanhippie Jan 2014 #80

remind me what we are agreeing on again. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #81

Stop being obtuse. cleanhippie Jan 2014 #87

What do you find wrong with that? Starboard Tack Jul 2014 #110

I've asked this question before, so respectfully, I'd like to ask it again EvolveOrConvolve Jul 2014 #291

Tradition. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #295

Would it be fair to say that edhopper Jul 2014 #302

Yes this is a good explanation. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #306

Thanks for illustrating the point so succinctly el_bryanto Jan 2014 #31

If you even knew a fraction about what you think you do when you spout off... cleanhippie Jan 2014 #39

Dangerous? That's an interesting choice of words. nt el_bryanto Jan 2014 #41

Intellectually dangerous. cleanhippie Jan 2014 #60

With respect, I'd like to point out that only some atheists do that Starboard Tack Jul 2014 #111

Do you believe the Bible was written by a god? Do you believe that humans are incapable lumpy Jan 2014 #35

That's most likely what happened. cleanhippie Jan 2014 #38

Describe the god you don't believe in. rug Jan 2014 #16

Anything that has the power to create the universe LostOne4Ever Jan 2014 #19

So said Epicurus. But simplify it. rug Jan 2014 #20

My views don't include anything that has the power to create the universe. eomer Jan 2014 #24

Then the attributes of a creator are irrelevant to nonbelief. rug Jan 2014 #34

Something didn't knock me silly this morning but it happened so fast... eomer Jan 2014 #42

Have you done laundry recently? rug Jan 2014 #43

Ah, you may be onto something. eomer Jan 2014 #44

Maybe someone else can help: what do you believe it was... eomer Jan 2014 #49

"But you were silly already", you may say. eomer Jan 2014 #51

I dont know LostOne4Ever Jan 2014 #58

I think it is something that will never be known. rug Jan 2014 #62

I agree and thus another of my issues with religion LostOne4Ever Jan 2014 #65

I don't think the fate of your soul, if there is one, depends on that choice. rug Jan 2014 #68

I don't believe in anything supernatural edhopper Jan 2014 #45

Not at all. rug Jan 2014 #46

So what is your concept of God edhopper Jan 2014 #48

I wouldn't even attempt it. rug Jan 2014 #50

Okay edhopper Jan 2014 #53

It would be less interesting if it weren't. rug Jan 2014 #55

the creator of all that is seen and unseen arely staircase Jan 2014 #17

+1 freshwest Jan 2014 #88

Do you believe that "god" wants to be worshipped? Or that you can plead with it? PassingFair Jan 2014 #91

When I did believe... LostOne4Ever Jan 2014 #18

I believe in God as a spiritual father who has ordered the universe el_bryanto Jan 2014 #21

She is the Mother of Creation nt LiberalEsto Jan 2014 #22

I don't believe in god. Yet I'm not an atheist. Or a deist for that matter. pinto Jan 2014 #26

I don't know if there is a god, I simply don't know who created the universe and all it's trappings. lumpy Jan 2014 #32

Would you say you are agnostic then? edhopper Jan 2014 #47

I'll let Beethoven do it. elleng Jan 2014 #52

That's beautiful edhopper Jan 2014 #54

No, as asked, I'm 'describing' the 'God' I believe in, elleng Jan 2014 #56

ahh! edhopper Jan 2014 #64

Spinoza's God? n/t Stargleamer Jul 2014 #288

Dunno; haven't studied. elleng Jul 2014 #316

I can tell you the god I believe in Prophet 451 Jan 2014 #57

I don't know that you meant it to be, but I found this post highly entertaining. cbayer Jan 2014 #72

LOL, thank you n/t Prophet 451 Jan 2014 #74

Brilliant! Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #94

Will you describe Lucifer, please? Mariana Jul 2014 #96

Hmmm Prophet 451 Jul 2014 #97

Thank you. Mariana Jul 2014 #98

You're very welcome n/t Prophet 451 Jul 2014 #308

Nonexistent. MineralMan Jan 2014 #71

I believe in the God who says "If you really want to worship me, then love your neighbor" struggle4progress Jan 2014 #75

Does believing in that god mean you actually have to do it? n/t trotsky Jan 2014 #76

No, it just means I have to try very seriously to do it: if I fall short now and then -- struggle4progress Jan 2014 #77

So basically, you could be a total ass and it's ok? trotsky Jan 2014 #82

Or, since Christianity is not your religion, perhaps I would do better to ignore struggle4progress Jan 2014 #83

Oh, I apologize. trotsky Jan 2014 #84

Maybe you should just give it a rest struggle4progress Jan 2014 #85

Again, I apologize. trotsky Jan 2014 #86

if you used hydroflouric acid johnnypneumatic Jul 2014 #192

Not short of cash n/t Fumesucker Jan 2014 #89

??? edhopper Jan 2014 #90

A line from a U2 song Fumesucker Jan 2014 #92

Oh edhopper Jan 2014 #93

I don't believe in the God I was raised with. No way could God be all good AND all powerful. raccoon Jan 2014 #95

At first I though you had the temerity to repost this piece of disingenuous horse manure, cbayer Jul 2014 #99

Not disingenuous at all edhopper Jul 2014 #100

I constantly tell people that they are not commenting on the god people actually believe in? cbayer Jul 2014 #102

Untrue. AtheistCrusader Jul 2014 #107

Good for you! Notches in your belt, I suppose. cbayer Jul 2014 #112

He thinks so. AtheistCrusader Jul 2014 #114

I am sure he does. Best of luck to both of you in your future crusades. cbayer Jul 2014 #115

Thank you for your condescension AtheistCrusader Jul 2014 #116

You are most welcome. cbayer Jul 2014 #117

How dare you show someone he was wrong about something edhopper Jul 2014 #118

Just trying to 'make the world a better place'. AtheistCrusader Jul 2014 #119

But you think people giving up their beliefs edhopper Jul 2014 #120

The reason I found that sarcastic response so annoying is, it takes a very honest person to be willi AtheistCrusader Jul 2014 #121

See it for what it is edhopper Jul 2014 #122

Are you calling my response an incoherent attack on rationality and progress? cbayer Jul 2014 #127

Since you have half the room on ignore skepticscott Jul 2014 #128

That's ok, you have the other half on ignore. rug Jul 2014 #177

Okay edhopper Jul 2014 #131

"When I have the opportunity to help someone find and evaluate the truth on their own" cbayer Jul 2014 #126

Actually, it was the truth, based on peer reviewed archeological findings and geology. AtheistCrusader Jul 2014 #145

Oh, I don't doubt that. It was the "completely unwound his faith" that I passed judgement on. cbayer Jul 2014 #168

But he did that, not me. AtheistCrusader Jul 2014 #190

See, here is the difference. cbayer Jul 2014 #125

Oh, so when you called creationists skepticscott Jul 2014 #129

LOLOLOL trotsky Jul 2014 #130

Any belief about edhopper Jul 2014 #132

I didn't condemn him, I sarcastically congratulated him. cbayer Jul 2014 #133

Bullshit edhopper Jul 2014 #135

Yes, it was. I don't think much of evangelizing whether it is to convert or deconvert. cbayer Jul 2014 #137

You asked me to respond edhopper Jul 2014 #139

I understand the game, edhopper. cbayer Jul 2014 #164

But I didn't do that. You inferred or invented that. AtheistCrusader Jul 2014 #191

And we disagree about that edhopper Jul 2014 #226

"You seem to be always looking for the wrong in what I say." AtheistCrusader Jul 2014 #153

Not sure what that means exactly, but I am going to assume it means that cbayer Jul 2014 #165

I'm referring to the assumptions you make about how I AtheistCrusader Jul 2014 #181

Really? Well that's nice. Ignorance of one of the effects I illustrated for him AtheistCrusader Jul 2014 #151

What? Perhaps I misread your comment, but it seemed pretty clear to me that you cbayer Jul 2014 #166

You might want to read what I said again, because I said nothing of the sort. AtheistCrusader Jul 2014 #186

You have such a narrow view of what is possible. AtheistCrusader Jul 2014 #148

Flimsy and brittle really works to the advantage of the evangelizing crusader. cbayer Jul 2014 #167

Really? I find most believers are pretty confident in their faith. AtheistCrusader Jul 2014 #188

For some reason, this one is scared to death skepticscott Jul 2014 #218

"disingenuous horse manure" trotsky Jul 2014 #101

This message was self-deleted by its author cleanhippie Jul 2014 #123

I believe in a creator who doesn't take an active, interventionist role in our lives. riqster Jul 2014 #103

Did your God create the Universe? edhopper Jul 2014 #104

Good question, and of course no one really knows. riqster Jul 2014 #106

Thanks for the reply edhopper Jul 2014 #108

Quite true. Religion and philosophy have a lot of touchpoints. riqster Jul 2014 #109

The collective consciousness of all living things CanonRay Jul 2014 #105

So you see consciousness edhopper Jul 2014 #113

Yes, there is a connection between all life CanonRay Jul 2014 #124

So did God arise edhopper Jul 2014 #134

"God' isn't a separate entity CanonRay Jul 2014 #138

You explained fine edhopper Jul 2014 #140

I will say I believe in a loving God of wonder and might. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #136

But he has edhopper Jul 2014 #141

Yes. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #142

And can he do so now? edhopper Jul 2014 #143

People's prayers are a conversation with God and is always worthwhile. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #144

I am not trying to trap you edhopper Jul 2014 #146

I do not limit his powers but from watching things I just don't think he decides things. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #147

I see edhopper Jul 2014 #149

Adequate to believe? hrmjustin Jul 2014 #150

Adequate edhopper Jul 2014 #152

Well I can't help you there. You either believe it or you don't. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #154

Yes edhopper Jul 2014 #155

Do you never ask yourself this question? cleanhippie Jul 2014 #156

Yes I ask myself this question. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #157

So you come to no conclusion at all? cleanhippie Jul 2014 #158

Life is ver complicated as is belief. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #159

I didn't ask if you know, I asked if you came to a conclusion. cleanhippie Jul 2014 #160

My conclusion is it is unlikely God decides what events taks shape in the world. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #161

Were your beliefs shown to be true, I would find them depressingly sad. cleanhippie Jul 2014 #162

What are you personal beliefs if I might ask? hrmjustin Jul 2014 #163

What are my personal beliefs about what? cleanhippie Jul 2014 #169

God amd life after death. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #170

I don't believe in the commonly held concept of "god" or an "afterlife". cleanhippie Jul 2014 #172

Do you think there is no more atter death or it is a wait and see thing? hrmjustin Jul 2014 #173

I've seen nothing even remotely convincing that would support the idea of an "afterlife". cleanhippie Jul 2014 #174

Thank you. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #175

Do you have an uncommonly held concept of god or an afterlife? rug Jul 2014 #178

No. I was an effort to be specific to the topic at hand. cleanhippie Jul 2014 #180

Perhaps you missed this part of my question. cleanhippie Jul 2014 #182

It is very hard to. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #183

So how do you reconcile that? cleanhippie Jul 2014 #184

Christ tells us God is love. I take him at his word. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #185

How is such suffering considered "love"? cleanhippie Jul 2014 #187

It is a contridiction. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #189

So what makes such an entity that allows or is powerless to stop suffering worthy of worship? cleanhippie Jul 2014 #193

Required? I don't think God requires us to bow down to him. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #194

Isn't believing in and worshiping god required to get into heaven? cleanhippie Jul 2014 #195

Depends on who you ask. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #196

Are you denying that a basic tenet of your faith is the requirement to believe and worship your god? cleanhippie Jul 2014 #197

It is how you interpet it. I personally don't believe in hell and think most if not all make it to hrmjustin Jul 2014 #198

Aside from that, why would such a god be worthy of our worship and devotion? cleanhippie Jul 2014 #199

Interesting qeuestion. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #200

What do you mean by "strength of spirit"? cleanhippie Jul 2014 #201

I pray to God to give me inner strength or to help me find my inner strength. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #202

Inner strength to do what? cleanhippie Jul 2014 #203

Strength to get through life. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #204

Do you always get it when you pray for it? cleanhippie Jul 2014 #205

Usually I feel it. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #206

Is it possible that your "inner strength" is always there and is not something to be given cleanhippie Jul 2014 #207

Of course. If there is no God and I am talking to myself then I am calling on my inner strength. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #208

Has there ever been a time when you didn't get this "inner strength"? cleanhippie Jul 2014 #209

I woukd say my sekf doubts take over. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #210

So self doubt is lack of inner strength? cleanhippie Jul 2014 #211

I would say just because I find my inner strength with the help of God does not mean my hrmjustin Jul 2014 #212

I was just using your example. Can you better explain a time when you failed to find your inner cleanhippie Jul 2014 #213

Off hand I can't think of one now. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #214

To use the example of your mother and her surgeons that you gave.. cleanhippie Jul 2014 #215

Yes but things going badly is not Gods fault. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #216

Or a lack of inner strength? cleanhippie Jul 2014 #217

Remember that I believe people make things happen. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #219

Then why pray for assistance from your god? cleanhippie Jul 2014 #220

Because it is a personal relationship with God. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #221

But if it has no tangible effect on reality, it's not necessary, right? cleanhippie Jul 2014 #222

In my opinion it is not required. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #223

So help me understand, after reviewing this conversation as a whole... cleanhippie Jul 2014 #224

My faith is my faith. If another considers it not rational that is their issue. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #225

Can we agree that there is a common definition of the word "rational"? cleanhippie Jul 2014 #227

I am sorry but I am not going to. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #228

Why not? We've been having a perfectly civil and productive conversation so far. cleanhippie Jul 2014 #230

We both know that I am not going to be able to do this. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #231

Being unable to is something I understand. cleanhippie Jul 2014 #232

I have at times said my faith is not necessarily logical. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #233

I appreciate that, but that's not what I asked you. cleanhippie Jul 2014 #234

As long as it is not being hurled as an insult then I have to say no. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #236

Does saying "your beliefs are irrational" meet that? cleanhippie Jul 2014 #238

I know you did not mean it as an insult. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #239

Can we agree then that by definition, these beliefs are irrational? cleanhippie Jul 2014 #240

We can agree that many believers and non-believers would say so. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #241

But I'm asking you, not anyone else. cleanhippie Jul 2014 #242

By definition no. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #243

But if you are unable to explain how these beliefs ARE rational... cleanhippie Jul 2014 #244

I am not saying you are wrong. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #245

Then what are you saying? cleanhippie Jul 2014 #247

I am saying it is a matter of opinion and opinions change. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #248

It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of definition. cleanhippie Jul 2014 #249

I am not disputing you. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #250

Then what are you doing? cleanhippie Jul 2014 #251

I do not have a definate opinion either way. I can certainly see your argument. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #255

What's the barrier causing you to not having an agreement on the definition of a word? cleanhippie Jul 2014 #257

because it is not as easy for me than it is for you. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #259

I urge you to consider the points made during this conversation cleanhippie Jul 2014 #311

Yes it is was a pleasant conversation and look foward to taking it up again. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #317

Thank you both for the civil and thoughtful discourse edhopper Jul 2014 #318

Your welcome my friend. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #319

Suffering reveals much more about humans than it does God. rug Jul 2014 #176

I agree. Real people facing real problems reveals more about reality than an ambiguous concept. cleanhippie Jul 2014 #179

You may agree but you do not understand. rug Jul 2014 #253

This is another post that deserves a rec all on its own. okasha Jul 2014 #261

So actively trying to minimize suffering edhopper Jul 2014 #263

Useless? that is insulting. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #267

Not meant for you justin edhopper Jul 2014 #275

oh ok. But that hour is not useless. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #276

You don't see it that way.No. edhopper Jul 2014 #278

Ok my apologies. I should have read the whole exchange. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #280

No problem edhopper Jul 2014 #283

No need to choose. okasha Jul 2014 #303

Why can't one discuss Epicurus edhopper Jul 2014 #304

No need to choose. okasha Jul 2014 #307

So why did you applaud and rec edhopper Jul 2014 #309

Wrong question. okasha Jul 2014 #320

You just contradicted edhopper Jul 2014 #321

Read more carefully. okasha Jul 2014 #322

If you want to interpret this as just a talking point about Epicurus: edhopper Jul 2014 #323

How do you do that? Do you first have to upaloopa Jul 2014 #171

This thread came about edhopper Jul 2014 #235

Goddess! atreides1 Jul 2014 #229

Do you think edhopper Jul 2014 #237

I don't believe in God. Maedhros Jul 2014 #246

I had to look up coterminous edhopper Jul 2014 #256

"Coterminous with" roughly means "encompassing". Maedhros Jul 2014 #268

I did look it up edhopper Jul 2014 #269

It's from the Upanishads, which predates Hinduism/Buddhism. Maedhros Jul 2014 #274

So you think there is more to reality than edhopper Jul 2014 #277

Not really. We are an inseparable part of the infinite universe. Maedhros Jul 2014 #284

Okay edhopper Jul 2014 #287

I have tried (and failed) to have an out-of-body experience. Maedhros Jul 2014 #296

Thanks edhopper Jul 2014 #298

I should add the qualification that I do not ascribe 100% to any given philosophy. Maedhros Jul 2014 #300

That is probably a good philosophy edhopper Jul 2014 #305

OK BlueJazz Jul 2014 #252

OK edhopper Jul 2014 #258

I left the message blank....same as my feelings. BlueJazz Jul 2014 #260

No feelings about God edhopper Jul 2014 #262

Mainly because I'm an atheist and I don't think about a God but.... BlueJazz Jul 2014 #266

So this thread wasn't meant for you edhopper Jul 2014 #272

An Angry Conservative White Man in the sky bluestateguy Jul 2014 #254

Me. You, him, them. That rock, that tree Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #264

The natural laws edhopper Jul 2014 #265

'supernatural' is just a way of saying 'I don't know'. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #270

Thanks edhopper Jul 2014 #271

You could if you were a solipsist! ;) nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #273

I should say edhopper Jul 2014 #281

The God I believe in is not a human being but a force--a force that makes nature run Louisiana1976 Jul 2014 #279

A force beyond the physical and laws edhopper Jul 2014 #286

love think Jul 2014 #282

Love exists edhopper Jul 2014 #285

God is love and He or She is the river that the spirit of love flows from think Jul 2014 #290

So God is an entity of some sort? edhopper Jul 2014 #292

That is an impossible request.. Peacetrain Jul 2014 #289

I can get why you would reply that way edhopper Jul 2014 #293

Well good luck in your quest Peacetrain Jul 2014 #294

Thanks edhopper Jul 2014 #297

I'm an avowed non-cannibal. That doesn't mean I don't take an interest in the beliefs of cannibals. AtheistCrusader Jul 2014 #299

This knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high; I cannot attain unto it. The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2014 #301

The knowledge of who or what God is? edhopper Jul 2014 #310

Honestly, I haven't a clue. The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2014 #312

Not to pin you down edhopper Jul 2014 #313

Agnostic, I guess. The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2014 #314

Thanks edhopper Jul 2014 #315