Cliven Bundy: God Told Me To Fight 'Civil War' Against Feds

[gcomeau]

48. You think that...

"His so-called tyranny is the fact that the government expects to be paid for use of the land it owns on behalf of the people..."

...and I think that. But that's not the point. The point is HIS perception of the situation. If you can't convince him he's wrong about the government being the bad guys in this then your appeal to "treat others as you would wish to be treated" is pointless and ineffective. Because in HIS view he's already doing that! In HIS view public land means the public and NOT the government owns it and therefore charging for it's use is wrong.

He's an idiot, but that's not going to make it any easier for you to convince him you're right and he's wrong on a MORAL judgement by appealing to logic.

You really have a difficult time handling this whole subjective value judgement concept don't you?

"What is the difference between "standards" and "rules of behavior"? I ask because you already announced the means for determining objectivity: "

There is absolutely no difference whatsoever between "standards" and "rules of behavior"

What I said is there is a difference between subjective moral judgements (or standards or rules) and objectively defined LAWS used as rules for behavior.

Because moral value judgements are made by individuals, and laws are written down, rigorously defined, and then applied to everyone equally whether they agree with them or not. Any one act can be either right or wrong to any given individual person based on how they view the situation, but how they view the situation doesn't alter whether the act is *legal*.

You can think stealing bread to feed a kid is an immoral act of theft. You can think stealing bread to feed a kid is a moral and compassionate act. The morality of the act is highly subjective and dependent on your personal viewpoint. But theft remains theft which is illegal REGARDLESS of your personal views on the morality of the specific act. Which makes *that* an objective rule of behavior. It is illegal totally independent of your personal view on whether any specific instance was right or wrong.