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In reply to the discussion: Give me a reasonable believer over an uncompromising atheist any day [View all]GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)29. Give me a reasonable person over an unreasonable person, no matter what they do or don't believe.
And I'm in complete agreement with the author's take on what comprises "reasonable":
By sincerity, I don't mean simply that people genuinely believe what they say. Rather, they are making a genuine effort to discover the truth and are able to question honestly the beliefs they were brought up with or have adopted in adult life. As some put it, they are fellow seekers.
By charity, I mean the effort to try to understand the views and arguments of those we disagree with in the most sympathetic form we can, being critical of their strongest versions, not their weakest ones or straw man caricatures.
By modesty I simply mean some real sense that we are all limited in our understanding and that no matter how sure we are, we could be mistaken. Even when others go very wrong indeed, we can recognise that there for either the grace of God or the luck of chance go I. This kind of modesty is not incompatible with having strongly held beliefs and certainly doesn't require agnosticism.
Although it's probably true that almost everyone claims the virtues of sincerity, charity and modesty for themselves, in practice many fall short. We should ask of those who claim to be part of the coalition of the reasonable: do they take any individuals or texts to be infallible sources of knowledge? If the answer is yes, they fail the test of sincerity. Do we see the principle of charity at work in how they actually criticise and discuss people of other faiths or none? And do they show any sign of genuinely being open to being wrong?
By charity, I mean the effort to try to understand the views and arguments of those we disagree with in the most sympathetic form we can, being critical of their strongest versions, not their weakest ones or straw man caricatures.
By modesty I simply mean some real sense that we are all limited in our understanding and that no matter how sure we are, we could be mistaken. Even when others go very wrong indeed, we can recognise that there for either the grace of God or the luck of chance go I. This kind of modesty is not incompatible with having strongly held beliefs and certainly doesn't require agnosticism.
Although it's probably true that almost everyone claims the virtues of sincerity, charity and modesty for themselves, in practice many fall short. We should ask of those who claim to be part of the coalition of the reasonable: do they take any individuals or texts to be infallible sources of knowledge? If the answer is yes, they fail the test of sincerity. Do we see the principle of charity at work in how they actually criticise and discuss people of other faiths or none? And do they show any sign of genuinely being open to being wrong?
Is there something about the Internet that precludes this kind of reasonableness in so many cases? Ever since my earliest days on usenet I've noticed that when people encounter those who hold different views it seems much easier to set oneself up in opposition rather than in cooperation. I'm not sure why that is, but I know I've been just as guilty of it as anyone.
Twenty years of that sort of behaviour hasn't yielded any progress, though, and I've gotten pretty tired of being in snark mode. Maybe I'm getting old, maybe it's something else, but these days I'd rather trade thoughtful insights than combative innuendo. It seems more productive, somehow.
On edit: Just after I posted this I realized the answer to my own question, in a post down below. It's all about dopamine.
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Your goal doesn't seem to be "dismantling the powerhouse that IS the religious right"
ellisonz
Mar 2012
#15
Ooh, good idea. Let's call it "The United States of America". Alternately: "The World".
enki23
Mar 2012
#86
Sorry to jump in, but shouldn't all progressives, regardless of theist/atheist,
Goblinmonger
Mar 2012
#57
There is no minority movement that is going to get the steam it needs to be heard
cbayer
Mar 2012
#78
Give me a reasonable person over an unreasonable person, no matter what they do or don't believe.
GliderGuider
Mar 2012
#29
My take on it is that strong emotions are self-rewarding because they trigger dopamine release
GliderGuider
Mar 2012
#36
Here is what a rational discussion looks like, and it's well above your "standard."
cleanhippie
Mar 2012
#99
Perhaps a "straightforward question," may have no simple. straight answer.
Thats my opinion
Mar 2012
#70
I'm glad you had this chance to vent and show us true Christian love for one's enemies.
trotsky
Mar 2012
#74
Don't be a jerk. Please. If you have some passage where Jesus says ignore others...
Festivito
Mar 2012
#100
Crying over spilled votes and pot shots that have a little truth are not bad things.
Festivito
Mar 2012
#106
plenty of my friends are uncompromising atheists, I'll take them every time! n/t
deacon_sephiroth
Mar 2012
#81
Damn those uncompromising atheists for... not compromising... on... something...
enki23
Mar 2012
#85
Give me a reasonable civil unionist rather than an uncompromising gay marriage advocate any day
enki23
Mar 2012
#87