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Jim__

(15,239 posts)
11. "... you should be open-minded enough to hear alternative views."
Wed Aug 20, 2014, 05:09 PM
Aug 2014

Really? This is what she believes?

From Blackmore's introduction to her book Conversations on Consciousness:

Secondly, I have been through all of this myself. I long ago concluded that free will must be an illusion, and so over the years I have practiced not believing in it. Eventually, with long practice, it becomes perfectly obvious that all the actions of the body are the consequences of prior events acting on a complex system; then the feeling of making free conscious decisions simply melts away. I had expected to find others who had gone through this somewhat disturbing change. Yet I was wrong. Everyone had something to say about free will, and some people had agonized about it. Dan Wegner and Pat both expressed the 'as if' option; yet, withthe possible exception of Francis, no one completely rejected the notion of free will as I do, and no one seemed to share my experience of letting it go.Indeed Susan and John did not seem to believe me that it is possible to throw it off.


... it becomes perfectly obvious that all the actions of the body are the consequences of prior events acting on a complex system; ...

Based on her claimed belief about free will and all the actions of the body, it should be perfectly obvious to her why these people got up and left - and that this action does not involve any choice. Or, maybe, things are not as perfectly obvious to her as she proclaims. And that implies she may not take being insulted at a lecture as passively as she believes she would.

Also, her proclaimed views on determinism strongly imply that her approach is wrong, but the thought never seems to cross her mind:

Walking miserably up the High Street I felt profoundly depressed at the state of the world. I could cheer myself with the thought that I’d learned something. I learned that Islam has yet another nasty meme-trick to offer – when you are offended put your hands over your ears and run away. This would be funny if it weren’t so serious. These bright, but ignorant, young people must be among the more enlightened of their contemporaries since their parents have been able and willing to send them on this course to learn something new. If even they cannot face dissent, or think for themselves, what hope is there for the rest? And what can I do?


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I'd really be interested in a study that measures physiological response to faith challenges. LiberalAndProud Aug 2014 #1
Indeed gcomeau Aug 2014 #2
"The online equivalent of fleeing the lecture hall." mr blur Aug 2014 #3
fleeing the lecture hall. AlbertCat Aug 2014 #84
I'll bet she could have gotten a different response Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #4
It seemed to me to be basically the same lecture she gave at TED, with just AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #6
I haven't seen her TED lecture. Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #7
At the TED confernence she touched on 'bad ideas'. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #9
Ok, now that I've watched the video. Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #50
According to her version of events, the disruption began as soon as she touched on evolution. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #52
True, but it was one person, and nobody left, not even when one of the volunteers started the chant Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #55
One thing i didnt see, and would ask her given the opportunity, is AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #57
This is the thing that I find really upsetting about this. stone space Aug 2014 #16
She's British. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #17
Well, in general, ... stone space Aug 2014 #20
To each their own. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #22
I don't know who Dembski is, ... stone space Aug 2014 #23
A creationist. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #25
ID, huh? stone space Aug 2014 #26
Oh? gcomeau Aug 2014 #27
That she is unprofessional and rude? stone space Aug 2014 #30
No... gcomeau Aug 2014 #34
I have worked with a good many okasha Aug 2014 #38
And my experience is the opposite of yours. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #53
Really? okasha Aug 2014 #54
I do and I do. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #56
She calls out and chides audience members gratuitously, AlbertCat Aug 2014 #85
Argh... gcomeau Aug 2014 #14
Journalism in its best use is neutral. Editorial Opinion pages are the place for advocacy, rebuttal. pinto Aug 2014 #28
Understanding that "neutral" does not mean "artificially balanced". gcomeau Aug 2014 #29
Yeah, neutral - not artificially balanced. Agree. pinto Aug 2014 #31
Sometimes edhopper Aug 2014 #32
Mmm. See your point. pinto Aug 2014 #33
On second thought, how can truth be biased? pinto Aug 2014 #35
Climate change for instance edhopper Aug 2014 #39
Relevant: trotsky Aug 2014 #62
The point of the presentation wasn't "why religion is awful" Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #41
Religion is an example of a meme. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #65
Something seems to be going unstated here. Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #68
It is as puzzling to me as some people's apparent expectation that she include something nice AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #70
It's part of good communication to establish connections with your audience. Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #75
I love the lack of self-consciousness of people Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #5
You are missing something here. stone space Aug 2014 #18
I didn't miss that they were leaving silently. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #79
You are making some major assumption here based on the single report of the cbayer Aug 2014 #80
No, I can't remember ever walking out of anything in protest. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #81
A childish gesture? It can be a profound political statement. cbayer Aug 2014 #82
Yeah, I don't have a lot of respect for the 'Code' people either. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #83
Being disruptive is entirely different than silently walking out. cbayer Aug 2014 #87
Couldn't she just say positive things about religion? Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #8
Hypothetical: you sign up for college lecture on statistics. Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #10
Her lecture was on memes. trotsky Aug 2014 #12
I'm assuming that religion qualifies. Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #42
By the definition given, okasha Aug 2014 #49
Must every lecture be "fair and balanced?" trotsky Aug 2014 #61
Bad comparison, creationism/ID isn't science, Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #64
From your perspective it isn't. trotsky Aug 2014 #66
And I would not change my lecture to avoid that outcome. Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #67
But you still haven't explained why she should have been required to do that for a lecture. n/t trotsky Aug 2014 #69
You and AtheistCrusader both ask this question. Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #76
You mean... gcomeau Aug 2014 #15
Um what the heck does this have to do with the invited speaker speaking at the lecture she Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #36
She was invited to speak on memes, not "why religion is awful". Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #43
Perhaps you ought to re-read the essay. Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #44
No, as I told Trotsky, I have no problem with her Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #46
This message was self-deleted by its author okasha Aug 2014 #47
The chairman apologized? I didn't see that. Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #48
Not sure where I saw that. okasha Aug 2014 #51
Any luck? AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #94
"... you should be open-minded enough to hear alternative views." Jim__ Aug 2014 #11
Calling out and chiding audience members as they leave? stone space Aug 2014 #13
Oh do try harder. mr blur Aug 2014 #19
Please don't tell me how to post. (nt) stone space Aug 2014 #21
We are pretty much allowed to express our opinions of other people's posts here. Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #37
OK, well...I'll try harder then. stone space Aug 2014 #40
that was the suggestion. Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #45
I would have stayed until she said "memeplexes". rug Aug 2014 #24
Too bad that this experience apparently did nothing but reinforce her dogmatic cbayer Aug 2014 #58
Not all muslims reject evolution. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #59
I don't understand the point of your post. cbayer Aug 2014 #60
Oh AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #63
It was not her talking about evolution that caused them to feel that way. cbayer Aug 2014 #71
Really? Blackmore is one of the most prominent Atheists in the 'activist' community, outside the AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #72
Well, I don't expect to hear much more from her. cbayer Aug 2014 #73
Nah, she'll be around. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #74
Yes, she and the horsemen will have their audience, I am sure. cbayer Aug 2014 #77
Sad! I guess she got her comeuppance. Shame on her. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #78
If half your audience is offended by criticism of ideas... MellowDem Aug 2014 #86
Oh, is that why they walked out? Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #88
It's far easier to be offended... MellowDem Aug 2014 #90
As it is far easier to retain an audience by not insulting it. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #91
Religious beliefs don't deserve respect automatically... MellowDem Aug 2014 #93
I don't respect beliefs, I respect people. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #95
They chose to be personally insulted... MellowDem Aug 2014 #96
Right Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #99
There is some theory in play here, perhaps part of our indoctrinated cultural expectations, Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #89
I'm reminded of "The First Amendment doesn't exist so we can talk about the weather" AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #92
If the situation were just slightly different, if instead she were lecturing about Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #97
Or even peer reviewed research about climate change. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #98
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