Religion

muriel_volestrangler

(106,236 posts)

167. Bringing in the data we looked at recently, no, it's not 'much more closely correlated'

Sat Aug 23, 2014, 02:33 PM

Aug 2014

with political persuasion for death penalty support.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=140582

http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/bpuzgpfb2b/tabs_OPI_wwjd_20140702.pdf

Republican support/oppose: 68/20
Independent: 60/20
Democrat: 50/29

Catholic: 66/23
Protestant: 59/24
other religion: 54/20
Agnostic or atheist: 48/29

Republicans are the most likely group, just, in those listed for religion or politics, but only just, but the A&A group is the least likely - so it's a tie, basically. There is, of course, a correlation between being Republican and Christian is the US. And whatever some clergy members think, the average Catholic is highly likely to support the death penalty. Sometimes the followers can be less liberal than the leaders, even if they're in favour of contraception.

I'd point out that all of us frequently "tell other people that they should feel the same way (we) do". That's advocacy. It's what the article you link to in the OP does.

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Stupid Religion [View all] cbayer Aug 2014 OP

Yes. This. Control-Z Aug 2014 #1

It is simply the golden rule, and a belief that spans cbayer Aug 2014 #4

...and non-religions.... PoutrageFatigue Aug 2014 #58

I stand corrected and agree with you 100%. cbayer Aug 2014 #64

"How we treat other people" is the central message promoted in early Christian literature. gordianot Aug 2014 #2

But there are differences between groups and it is critical that those cbayer Aug 2014 #3

In Europe, Africa, Asia there are cemeteries full of people murdered in the name of religion. gordianot Aug 2014 #5

In Europe, Africa and Asia there are millions of people who's lives were cbayer Aug 2014 #6

You can be religious and a good person bvf Aug 2014 #7

It's not a step ahead morality wise, but if it makes you feel superior cbayer Aug 2014 #8

Now there's a straw man argument for you. bvf Aug 2014 #13

It's not a straw man. It's the truth. cbayer Aug 2014 #21

Spoken like a true believer. bvf Aug 2014 #33

Except I'm not, so that should scare you even more. cbayer Aug 2014 #41

Seems to me the feeling of constantly being judged bvf Aug 2014 #44

What feeling of constantly being judged? cbayer Aug 2014 #46

What assumption was that? bvf Aug 2014 #47

It is interesting that people who spend a lot of time judging others... trotsky Aug 2014 #99

Agreed. n/t bvf Aug 2014 #100

When individuals or groups think they are "a step ahead, morality-wise", we have a problem Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #9

"Better"? bvf Aug 2014 #14

Only you know what you were trying to say Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #19

How about saying the other group is "stupid religion", "fake", and "garbage"? eomer Aug 2014 #50

We do not work as a team. We rarely discuss religion or DU, believe it or not. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #51

You're not the one who was called delusional or psychotic, not sure why you would imply you were. eomer Aug 2014 #54

SS has declared all believers to be psychotic and delusional Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #56

Whether they are members of DU or of this group has nothing to do with whether it's bigotry. eomer Aug 2014 #59

Did I say I was laughing at sacred texts? Right, I thought not. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #62

So your position is that saying in public that you laugh all day at a text someone holds sacred eomer Aug 2014 #70

I don't think I've ever laughed at anything all day in my life. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #81

Nothing in the Book of Mormon is sacred to me either, but it's all sacred to someone. eomer Aug 2014 #97

You couldn't be more wrong. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #117

So how would that work? eomer Aug 2014 #128

You seem to be really struggling with this. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #132

Not at all, thanks. eomer Aug 2014 #138

There is a HUGE fucking difference between saying okasha Aug 2014 #145

Of course there is, but thanks for making that point. eomer Aug 2014 #159

Is there some reason you are not addressing me directly? cbayer Aug 2014 #75

What I posted was almost verbatim what you said - here is your post: eomer Aug 2014 #86

You are correct. I missed that post. cbayer Aug 2014 #92

Thanks, I am with you for most of that but then you lose me near the end. eomer Aug 2014 #96

I introduce bigotry into the conversation when someone makes a broad statement cbayer Aug 2014 #98

See my post #130 etc. in response. "All" have sinned the Bible said. Etc. Brettongarcia Aug 2014 #131

There is no doubt skepticscott Aug 2014 #17

As long as a progressive identifies with a religion that has the Bible as it's source... MellowDem Aug 2014 #10

"Without real love, all you have is stupid religion." pinto Aug 2014 #11

Allow me to add, "Without an unbiased mind, all you have is stupid opinion." rug Aug 2014 #12

And you can have "real love" skepticscott Aug 2014 #16

Of course you can have real love without religion. Duh. I'm not claiming that. pinto Aug 2014 #18

So we need religion skepticscott Aug 2014 #22

Most of us don't, but it might do you some good. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #27

Most of "us"? skepticscott Aug 2014 #29

Who would that be? The decent human beings who frequent this group. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #31

You still can't answer the question, can you? skepticscott Aug 2014 #37

I characterize that attitude as "intolerant". Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #45

This message was self-deleted by its author eomer Aug 2014 #49

You say few Catholics subscribe to it. Promethean Aug 2014 #61

Do you talk to many Catholics about this? Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #66

Some choose religion. I'd wager for as many different reasons as there are those involved. pinto Aug 2014 #32

The article is " no true Scotsman" MellowDem Aug 2014 #24

Well said. n/t bvf Aug 2014 #15

As long as a progressive despises a religion that has the Bible as it's source... Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #20

There are no "good parts" of the Bible skepticscott Aug 2014 #23

And you wonder why you have marginalized yourself? Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #25

Do tell us how YOU would characterize people skepticscott Aug 2014 #28

"What god wants" indeed. Well said. n/t bvf Aug 2014 #34

Post removed Post removed Aug 2014 #35

Dodging is all they have. bvf Aug 2014 #36

Most likely he's asleep. okasha Aug 2014 #38

Freud said all religion is "delusion"; the Bible said the whole world would be deceived in religion Brettongarcia Aug 2014 #124

There are no "good parts". AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #39

I was quoting MellowDem. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #48

David/Goliath is one skirmish in a war of conquest by the Israelis. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #55

We all have different experiences. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #57

Poiint of information. okasha Aug 2014 #68

The Philistines had a static presence in I think 5 major cities of that region. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #69

If you're rejoicing that a person was tortured and murdered phil89 Aug 2014 #26

We have a winner. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #40

Is that the depth of your understanding of christianity? cbayer Aug 2014 #42

There really isn't anything more to it. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #60

And that, AC, is the core of the problem when it comes to you and religion. cbayer Aug 2014 #65

That is THE single differentiating premise between christianity and any other religion. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #67

Actually, it's the resurrection that occasions the rejoicing. okasha Aug 2014 #71

To which the crucifixion is a prerequisite. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #104

Then your informants differ with Paul. okasha Aug 2014 #144

Without the crucifixion, how does jesus get raised? AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #147

He doesn't, of course. okasha Aug 2014 #151

Good Friday not happy? trotsky Aug 2014 #158

Martyrs of all sorts are found throughout many religions. cbayer Aug 2014 #105

"So while we clearly have a whiner"??? trotsky Aug 2014 #106

ROFL AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #108

ROFL? cbayer Aug 2014 #110

They are celebrating the crucifixion. In many cases, by literally nailing people to crosses. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #111

I am sure I could be more wrong. cbayer Aug 2014 #113

Oh good fucking god do we need to argue over the definition of words again? AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #114

No we don't. You are right, you win. cbayer Aug 2014 #115

Post 116. They do. Maybe not all. Some are somber about it. But the specific word REJOICE is used AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #119

For the game!! You are right and have totally convinced me. cbayer Aug 2014 #120

Not so fast. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #122

Are you changing your "win" to a "sort of under certain circumstances" then? cbayer Aug 2014 #125

I don't view a fetus as a person with rights and responsibilities. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #129

While interesting, that was not my point. cbayer Aug 2014 #133

Permitted? AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #134

Do you really think these arguments over trivial semantic definitions mean cbayer Aug 2014 #136

Also, this is complete BS. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #135

Bringing in the data we looked at recently, no, it's not 'much more closely correlated' muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #167

The specific word "rejoice" okasha Aug 2014 #146

I don't believe it's legal to nail yourself to a cross in the US. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #148

And I DO see christians here in the US rejoicing over the sacrifice jesus allegedly made, so you're AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #116

Okey, dokey. You win again! cbayer Aug 2014 #118

Do you know many christians? AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #121

I am sure you are aware of my background. cbayer Aug 2014 #123

I think it's a broken moral premise. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #126

The Bible said that the whole world would be found to follow a "false Christ" (Rev. 13.7-8) Brettongarcia Aug 2014 #130

Some Christians may celebrate this. okasha Aug 2014 #149

What you describe as good friday is actually a celebration. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #150

In the sense of "honor, solemnize," you are of course correct. okasha Aug 2014 #152

It is certainly dark territory. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #154

There was a definite dark strain okasha Aug 2014 #156

And if that wasn't clear enough for you, I suggest you read The Brothers Karamazov. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #112

In my worldview... 2naSalit Aug 2014 #30

You can lead a mind to knowledge but you can't make it think. cbayer Aug 2014 #43

Yes, we'd all be better off with more thinking bvf Aug 2014 #53

Yes we would. And religion/spirituality/belief is a very, very complex thing that cbayer Aug 2014 #63

Quantum physics is complex. bvf Aug 2014 #72

Again, your very simplistic view of a very complex subject explains cbayer Aug 2014 #73

Address my point then. bvf Aug 2014 #74

Which point is it you would like for me to address? cbayer Aug 2014 #76

You were the one to term my argument as simplistic. bvf Aug 2014 #77

Both belief and non-belief are snaps to the intellectually lazy. cbayer Aug 2014 #78

So address my point already. bvf Aug 2014 #79

There is no "why" about belief. cbayer Aug 2014 #80

It strikes me as sad if no one can ask "why" bvf Aug 2014 #85

Fascism? Yep, you got me pegged. cbayer Aug 2014 #88

There certainly is. bvf Aug 2014 #91

Vacuous, ignorant, fascist? We are done here. cbayer Aug 2014 #95

OK. bvf Aug 2014 #101

You seem to equate atheism bvf Aug 2014 #82

Equate? No, they are different sides of the same coin. Glad you find it cute. cbayer Aug 2014 #83

Why haven"t you answered my question? bvf Aug 2014 #84

What question, lol?? cbayer Aug 2014 #87

Why believe? bvf Aug 2014 #90

Why not believe? cbayer Aug 2014 #94

Believe whatever you like. bvf Aug 2014 #157

What part didn't I understand?? bvf Aug 2014 #89

Admit what? That killing others because their beliefs are different than yours cbayer Aug 2014 #93

bvf, you are needlessly combative and irritating. [n/t] Maedhros Aug 2014 #137

Address the arguments instead of attacking the person. n/t trotsky Aug 2014 #140

Really? bvf was given the official dismissed for being an idiot by cbayer Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #141

I didn't see that at all. [n/t] Maedhros Aug 2014 #143

That's because it's not there. okasha Aug 2014 #153

"If it's as simplistic as you say, it shouldn't be difficult to refute." LTX Aug 2014 #139

"how we treat other people" trotsky Aug 2014 #52

I left mainstream religion a long time ago but redstatebluegirl Aug 2014 #102

I agree with you and applaud you for being able to see the cbayer Aug 2014 #103

You are welcome, I see so many nasty comments here redstatebluegirl Aug 2014 #107

I am glad you found a UU church that concentrates on the positive. cbayer Aug 2014 #109

Thanks for the post. Many people of faith individually "see the world as generally a good place". pinto Aug 2014 #127

UU: does it even make it to 0.1% of christians in the US? Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #142

+1000 !!!! orpupilofnature57 Aug 2014 #162

Jesus was the biggest critic of religious ritual, the letter of the law instead of the orpupilofnature57 Aug 2014 #155

But then Jesus also said the opposite: he would not drop one "dot" or bit of the law, until the End Brettongarcia Aug 2014 #160

wHHAA? John 4.1 is about Discernment . orpupilofnature57 Aug 2014 #161

Correction: second person. Jesus refers to the "son of Man" as "he." Not "I." Brettongarcia Aug 2014 #163

Moses and his ego " perished in the wilderness ", Another word that We haven't mentioned, orpupilofnature57 Aug 2014 #164

When Jews perished in the wilderness, Paul added "now these things are lessons for us" Christians Brettongarcia Aug 2014 #165

Standing on faith gives you no basis to criticise the faith of someone else. enki23 Aug 2014 #166

You tell them from us that they Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #168