Religion

trotsky

(49,533 posts)

77. That doesn't counter it at all.

Wed Sep 3, 2014, 06:38 AM

Sep 2014

Him: "Hey, god told me women are 2nd class citizens."

You: "Hmm, perhaps you should reconsider that."

Him: "... OK, just did. I asked him again, and he confirmed that's what he told me."

You: ???

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As a religious person, I don't want patriarchal religion to gain more political power. [View all] Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 OP

All religion suppresses and manipulates. bvf Sep 2014 #1

What definition of "religion" are you using? nt Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #2

Belief in imaginary beings. n/t bvf Sep 2014 #3

I see. Do you find you have trouble taking religious people seriously when you talk to them? Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #5

Well, first off. . . bvf Sep 2014 #8

Maybe they could be considered philosophies, but then how do you analyze Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #10

Are you seriously equating the notion bvf Sep 2014 #14

Abrahamic theology has been very influenced by Plato and Aristotle and their followers. Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #55

From polytheism to monotheism is definitely bvf Sep 2014 #63

Why do you say it is a step in the right direction? Starboard Tack Sep 2014 #99

Why would you go to the DU Religion Group to discuss lunch? rug Sep 2014 #16

Wrong turn. Plus I was hungry. bvf Sep 2014 #17

Or you relish the opportunity to insult and belittle religions and religious people. cbayer Sep 2014 #20

You think wrong. bvf Sep 2014 #21

Sure. If you can only take religious people seriously in a discussion about lunch, cbayer Sep 2014 #24

Please stop mischaracterizing my position. bvf Sep 2014 #25

So, again I ask you the same question. cbayer Sep 2014 #26

See? bvf Sep 2014 #28

What words would you be comfortable with me using to describe those that do not believe. cbayer Sep 2014 #29

Call me a believer. bvf Sep 2014 #30

You believe that there are no supernatural beings. Ok. cbayer Sep 2014 #31

Call me an atheist then. As if that weren't out there from the start. bvf Sep 2014 #33

Atheist or nonbeliever . They are the same thing. cbayer Sep 2014 #34

Not "non-believer." "Believer." bvf Sep 2014 #35

Ok, I'll call you a believer. cbayer Sep 2014 #36

Wow. Prejudice, contempt and bigotry. bvf Sep 2014 #37

That is correct - either you believe or you do not have the belief. cbayer Sep 2014 #38

Again with the pejoratives. bvf Sep 2014 #39

It is not pejorative at all. cbayer Sep 2014 #41

See # 37. bvf Sep 2014 #53

And no one will ever know which is true, imo. cbayer Sep 2014 #57

I'm quite certain there is no god. bvf Sep 2014 #62

You can be no more certain than those that are quite certain there is one. cbayer Sep 2014 #71

I don't see you out there demanding theists prove their beliefs. bvf Sep 2014 #72

I don't see anyone here insisting that there is a god. cbayer Sep 2014 #73

Post removed Post removed Sep 2014 #74

Neither is true carolinayellowdog Sep 2014 #101

I'm an atheist and I believe in all kinds of imaginary things Starboard Tack Sep 2014 #100

All lack of belief leads to amorality. See how stupid that sounds? cbayer Sep 2014 #19

Yes, your statement does sound stupid. bvf Sep 2014 #22

I don't view atheism as some sort of deficiency. I was turning your statement back on you. cbayer Sep 2014 #23

Uh, I got that. bvf Sep 2014 #27

May I ask what religious text you rely on for your religious vision? LiberalAndProud Sep 2014 #4

I tend to engage with the Bible the most among religious texts, but I wouldn't say I "rely" on it. Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #6

Thanks for the link. LiberalAndProud Sep 2014 #7

"Engaging with the bible?" bvf Sep 2014 #9

I'm definitely a cherry-picker. Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #11

What do you do with the parts you don't pick? LiberalAndProud Sep 2014 #12

I read them, try to understand them in context, and then I disagree with them. nt Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #13

How do you decide? LiberalAndProud Sep 2014 #15

I appreciate that, and I welcome your questions. Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #54

Yes, that is my question. LiberalAndProud Sep 2014 #56

The way I see it, God didn't have to create. Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #58

Yours is a view I'm familiar with. LiberalAndProud Sep 2014 #59

It's a by-product of a requirement of our reality as distinct entities. Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #60

That's quite beautiful. LiberalAndProud Sep 2014 #61

Thank you. Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #68

I think maybe you simplify what you call the corruption of religion. LiberalAndProud Sep 2014 #69

Thank you for that reminder. Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #70

I was horrified by some of the things I heard on the radio during a recent cbayer Sep 2014 #18

What about a matriarchal one? intaglio Sep 2014 #32

I think I've found the key to cbayer: we are meeting an unconsciously Martriarchial religion Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #40

Golly! I sure hope you got the secret decoder ring for the obsessed with cbayer club. cbayer Sep 2014 #42

Would that be in effect, part of the religin you support? If not, then what is it that you support? Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #44

I support an individuals right to believe or not believe whatever they want. cbayer Sep 2014 #48

Problem: you support "belief" in whatever; but not acting on those beliefs? Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #83

When you left out the word "some", you missed the entire point. cbayer Sep 2014 #84

LOGIC: some of belief should not be acted on, is what your statement said. Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #85

When people use their beliefs to take actions that cbayer Sep 2014 #86

Once again cbayer, there's a huge flaw in your logic. trotsky Sep 2014 #87

Again? The attempt to absolutely differentiate "belief" from action is wrong. Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #88

A belief is something that occurs in ones brain. cbayer Sep 2014 #90

Suppose you believe that God is compassionate; and orders you to help the poor Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #91

If one believes that they are being ordered to do something, then cbayer Sep 2014 #92

If we use God as an ideal for our own behavior, then his compassion would be a model for our actions Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #94

Do you use god as an ideal for our own behavior? cbayer Sep 2014 #95

A "belief" or religion that does not try to effect our lives in the external "world," is empty. Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #102

I've been waiting for the secret decoder ring to extract a modicum of sense from his post. rug Sep 2014 #46

You will not be getting this particular secret ring, rug. cbayer Sep 2014 #47

Sigh, another irrational hope. rug Sep 2014 #50

Every time someone says 'I do not believe in fairies', cbayer Sep 2014 #51

I may have missed the sarcasm tag intaglio Sep 2014 #43

Mere semantics. Rephrase to cybayer: so what are the elements of religion that bring "benefits"? Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #45

Semantics - no intaglio Sep 2014 #52

examples are flawed Lordquinton Sep 2014 #64

Firstly; learn to read, I did not dispute that religion does harm intaglio Sep 2014 #65

Intaglio: you're still playing dishonest semantic games. And you are ignoring formal logic. Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #82

I am not saying "more beneficial than harmful" intaglio Sep 2014 #89

So back to my central question: what ARE the supposed benefits, exactly? Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #93

I'd say "Read my post" except intaglio Sep 2014 #96

I thought I'd skip ahead to the final point. But if you want to slog along step by step? Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #103

You really are blind intaglio Sep 2014 #104

You yourself are indeed not responding to most of my key points Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #105

Monotheisms intaglio Sep 2014 #106

Again, the very virtues of "religion" that you note, were more about science Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #107

Well, thanks for that intaglio. cbayer Sep 2014 #49

As a religious person, how do you keep religion from becoming patriarchal? trotsky Sep 2014 #66

I present arguments like the ones in the OP, and I also note Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #67

Special revelation is certainly not necessary, however you don't explain how to counter it. trotsky Sep 2014 #75

I just did. Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #76

That doesn't counter it at all. trotsky Sep 2014 #77

That's not all I wrote, either in the OP, Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #78

True, you certainly wrote more. trotsky Sep 2014 #79

Maybe it is because I am an atheist, and a woman, but I find the idea that I would have to aceept djean111 Sep 2014 #80

I agree with you 100%. trotsky Sep 2014 #81

Your opinion. Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #97

God told me you'd say that. n/t trotsky Sep 2014 #98