Religion

cbayer

(146,218 posts)

86. When people use their beliefs to take actions that

Wed Sep 3, 2014, 09:18 AM

Sep 2014

impinge on the rights of others or discriminate against others, I will object to that. That says nothing about what the individual believes, only about what they can do based upon that belief.

Yes, some actions are permissible and others are not. I can shoot daggers with my eyes at someone I am angry with, but I can't put an actual dagger in their chest.

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As a religious person, I don't want patriarchal religion to gain more political power. [View all] Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 OP

All religion suppresses and manipulates. bvf Sep 2014 #1

What definition of "religion" are you using? nt Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #2

Belief in imaginary beings. n/t bvf Sep 2014 #3

I see. Do you find you have trouble taking religious people seriously when you talk to them? Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #5

Well, first off. . . bvf Sep 2014 #8

Maybe they could be considered philosophies, but then how do you analyze Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #10

Are you seriously equating the notion bvf Sep 2014 #14

Abrahamic theology has been very influenced by Plato and Aristotle and their followers. Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #55

From polytheism to monotheism is definitely bvf Sep 2014 #63

Why do you say it is a step in the right direction? Starboard Tack Sep 2014 #99

Why would you go to the DU Religion Group to discuss lunch? rug Sep 2014 #16

Wrong turn. Plus I was hungry. bvf Sep 2014 #17

Or you relish the opportunity to insult and belittle religions and religious people. cbayer Sep 2014 #20

You think wrong. bvf Sep 2014 #21

Sure. If you can only take religious people seriously in a discussion about lunch, cbayer Sep 2014 #24

Please stop mischaracterizing my position. bvf Sep 2014 #25

So, again I ask you the same question. cbayer Sep 2014 #26

See? bvf Sep 2014 #28

What words would you be comfortable with me using to describe those that do not believe. cbayer Sep 2014 #29

Call me a believer. bvf Sep 2014 #30

You believe that there are no supernatural beings. Ok. cbayer Sep 2014 #31

Call me an atheist then. As if that weren't out there from the start. bvf Sep 2014 #33

Atheist or nonbeliever . They are the same thing. cbayer Sep 2014 #34

Not "non-believer." "Believer." bvf Sep 2014 #35

Ok, I'll call you a believer. cbayer Sep 2014 #36

Wow. Prejudice, contempt and bigotry. bvf Sep 2014 #37

That is correct - either you believe or you do not have the belief. cbayer Sep 2014 #38

Again with the pejoratives. bvf Sep 2014 #39

It is not pejorative at all. cbayer Sep 2014 #41

See # 37. bvf Sep 2014 #53

And no one will ever know which is true, imo. cbayer Sep 2014 #57

I'm quite certain there is no god. bvf Sep 2014 #62

You can be no more certain than those that are quite certain there is one. cbayer Sep 2014 #71

I don't see you out there demanding theists prove their beliefs. bvf Sep 2014 #72

I don't see anyone here insisting that there is a god. cbayer Sep 2014 #73

Post removed Post removed Sep 2014 #74

Neither is true carolinayellowdog Sep 2014 #101

I'm an atheist and I believe in all kinds of imaginary things Starboard Tack Sep 2014 #100

All lack of belief leads to amorality. See how stupid that sounds? cbayer Sep 2014 #19

Yes, your statement does sound stupid. bvf Sep 2014 #22

I don't view atheism as some sort of deficiency. I was turning your statement back on you. cbayer Sep 2014 #23

Uh, I got that. bvf Sep 2014 #27

May I ask what religious text you rely on for your religious vision? LiberalAndProud Sep 2014 #4

I tend to engage with the Bible the most among religious texts, but I wouldn't say I "rely" on it. Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #6

Thanks for the link. LiberalAndProud Sep 2014 #7

"Engaging with the bible?" bvf Sep 2014 #9

I'm definitely a cherry-picker. Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #11

What do you do with the parts you don't pick? LiberalAndProud Sep 2014 #12

I read them, try to understand them in context, and then I disagree with them. nt Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #13

How do you decide? LiberalAndProud Sep 2014 #15

I appreciate that, and I welcome your questions. Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #54

Yes, that is my question. LiberalAndProud Sep 2014 #56

The way I see it, God didn't have to create. Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #58

Yours is a view I'm familiar with. LiberalAndProud Sep 2014 #59

It's a by-product of a requirement of our reality as distinct entities. Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #60

That's quite beautiful. LiberalAndProud Sep 2014 #61

Thank you. Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #68

I think maybe you simplify what you call the corruption of religion. LiberalAndProud Sep 2014 #69

Thank you for that reminder. Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #70

I was horrified by some of the things I heard on the radio during a recent cbayer Sep 2014 #18

What about a matriarchal one? intaglio Sep 2014 #32

I think I've found the key to cbayer: we are meeting an unconsciously Martriarchial religion Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #40

Golly! I sure hope you got the secret decoder ring for the obsessed with cbayer club. cbayer Sep 2014 #42

Would that be in effect, part of the religin you support? If not, then what is it that you support? Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #44

I support an individuals right to believe or not believe whatever they want. cbayer Sep 2014 #48

Problem: you support "belief" in whatever; but not acting on those beliefs? Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #83

When you left out the word "some", you missed the entire point. cbayer Sep 2014 #84

LOGIC: some of belief should not be acted on, is what your statement said. Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #85

When people use their beliefs to take actions that cbayer Sep 2014 #86

Once again cbayer, there's a huge flaw in your logic. trotsky Sep 2014 #87

Again? The attempt to absolutely differentiate "belief" from action is wrong. Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #88

A belief is something that occurs in ones brain. cbayer Sep 2014 #90

Suppose you believe that God is compassionate; and orders you to help the poor Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #91

If one believes that they are being ordered to do something, then cbayer Sep 2014 #92

If we use God as an ideal for our own behavior, then his compassion would be a model for our actions Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #94

Do you use god as an ideal for our own behavior? cbayer Sep 2014 #95

A "belief" or religion that does not try to effect our lives in the external "world," is empty. Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #102

I've been waiting for the secret decoder ring to extract a modicum of sense from his post. rug Sep 2014 #46

You will not be getting this particular secret ring, rug. cbayer Sep 2014 #47

Sigh, another irrational hope. rug Sep 2014 #50

Every time someone says 'I do not believe in fairies', cbayer Sep 2014 #51

I may have missed the sarcasm tag intaglio Sep 2014 #43

Mere semantics. Rephrase to cybayer: so what are the elements of religion that bring "benefits"? Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #45

Semantics - no intaglio Sep 2014 #52

examples are flawed Lordquinton Sep 2014 #64

Firstly; learn to read, I did not dispute that religion does harm intaglio Sep 2014 #65

Intaglio: you're still playing dishonest semantic games. And you are ignoring formal logic. Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #82

I am not saying "more beneficial than harmful" intaglio Sep 2014 #89

So back to my central question: what ARE the supposed benefits, exactly? Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #93

I'd say "Read my post" except intaglio Sep 2014 #96

I thought I'd skip ahead to the final point. But if you want to slog along step by step? Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #103

You really are blind intaglio Sep 2014 #104

You yourself are indeed not responding to most of my key points Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #105

Monotheisms intaglio Sep 2014 #106

Again, the very virtues of "religion" that you note, were more about science Brettongarcia Sep 2014 #107

Well, thanks for that intaglio. cbayer Sep 2014 #49

As a religious person, how do you keep religion from becoming patriarchal? trotsky Sep 2014 #66

I present arguments like the ones in the OP, and I also note Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #67

Special revelation is certainly not necessary, however you don't explain how to counter it. trotsky Sep 2014 #75

I just did. Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #76

That doesn't counter it at all. trotsky Sep 2014 #77

That's not all I wrote, either in the OP, Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #78

True, you certainly wrote more. trotsky Sep 2014 #79

Maybe it is because I am an atheist, and a woman, but I find the idea that I would have to aceept djean111 Sep 2014 #80

I agree with you 100%. trotsky Sep 2014 #81

Your opinion. Htom Sirveaux Sep 2014 #97

God told me you'd say that. n/t trotsky Sep 2014 #98