Religion

cbayer

(146,218 posts)

4. Do you see extremists as the PTB?

Reply to merrily (Reply #2)

Sat Sep 13, 2014, 03:06 AM

Sep 2014

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The betrayal of my beautiful religion, Islam [View all] cbayer Sep 2014 OP

Article ends rather abruptly with a No True Scotsman fallacy. AtheistCrusader Sep 2014 #1

I don't think "No True Scotsman" is always a fallacy. cbayer Sep 2014 #3

I don't see any meat to her position. AtheistCrusader Sep 2014 #9

I think she makes a distinction between Islamism and Islam. cbayer Sep 2014 #12

The PTB will use or "betray" whatever suits them. Religion is no exception. merrily Sep 2014 #2

Do you see extremists as the PTB? cbayer Sep 2014 #4

Do you? merrily Sep 2014 #5

No, that's why I was puzzled by your response. cbayer Sep 2014 #6

Who funded and fostered Ben Laden? merrily Sep 2014 #10

I see your point and agree that religion has historically been used for cbayer Sep 2014 #13

And sometimes vice versa. It's symbiotic. merrily Sep 2014 #14

Add to that DonCoquixote Sep 2014 #21

When women could not sign binding contracts, Elizabeth I could sign binding treaties. merrily Sep 2014 #23

P.S. Look at the symbiotic relationship between the US right and religious extremism now. merrily Sep 2014 #15

I see some weakening in that relationship, or cbayer Sep 2014 #17

Maybe; maybe not. But that is a different point from whether the PTB exploits religion. merrily Sep 2014 #18

Yes it is. I agree on the exploitation example. cbayer Sep 2014 #19

They generally seek to become the PTB, with greater or lesser success LeftishBrit Sep 2014 #7

It's just a difference in definition, I think. cbayer Sep 2014 #8

Depends on how you define "legitimate," not only on how you define "PTB." merrily Sep 2014 #11

TPTB in our society are not, for the most part, those who wield legitimate power, tblue37 Sep 2014 #31

But it seems to me that would exclude the military-industrial complex and those cbayer Sep 2014 #32

TPTB are those who wield the most power and influence in a society, regardless of who is tblue37 Sep 2014 #33

So they can be legitimate or not. cbayer Sep 2014 #34

On that we certainly agree. Isis is just a bunch of thugs who are temporarily running tblue37 Sep 2014 #35

And tragically, once defeated, another will coalesce in their place. cbayer Sep 2014 #38

Saudi monarchs could be considered PTB grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #36

As you can see in this subthread, the definition looks to be cbayer Sep 2014 #37

This message was self-deleted by its author Android3.14 Sep 2014 #16

Why can't the laws of an entire nation edhopper Sep 2014 #20

Whole nations are following ISIS? cbayer Sep 2014 #25

She considers Saudi Arabia's Wahhabi version of Islam and Shariah tblue37 Sep 2014 #28

Thanks for that explanation. cbayer Sep 2014 #30

Yes that is what I meant. edhopper Sep 2014 #39

Is it a lot of people's Islam? cbayer Sep 2014 #40

So just a small minority of the population of edhopper Sep 2014 #41

Follow what? ISIS? Beheadings? Terrorism? cbayer Sep 2014 #42

I wasn't talking about ISIS edhopper Sep 2014 #43

She really is talking about extremists here. cbayer Sep 2014 #44

I don't agree edhopper Sep 2014 #45

Impossible to gauge. AtheistCrusader Sep 2014 #54

I agree that it is very difficult to obtain accurate data from these areas. cbayer Sep 2014 #57

For all her lovely intentions DonCoquixote Sep 2014 #22

Even if one takes the position that this is an NTS fallacy, cbayer Sep 2014 #24

Here is the problem with that DonCoquixote Sep 2014 #46

Why can we not separate them? cbayer Sep 2014 #48

Because DonCoquixote Sep 2014 #51

That is how change comes about, whether it is within a religious or a secular cbayer Sep 2014 #55

So you are saying edhopper Sep 2014 #47

Once again, I must note that saying "So you are saying" is cbayer Sep 2014 #49

Meant to have both sentences edhopper Sep 2014 #53

What I mean is what I said. cbayer Sep 2014 #56

Your claims about "what most people believe" are unfounded and you then fall into Warren Stupidity Sep 2014 #50

Religion belongs in the private sphere CJCRANE Sep 2014 #26

People often demand that moderate Muslims denounce tblue37 Sep 2014 #27

I think you make a very valid point. cbayer Sep 2014 #29

What seems odd: Islamic Clerics and Rulers place Fatwas on many things--Why not these guys? TheBlackAdder Sep 2014 #52

The Islamic KKK Prophet 451 Sep 2014 #58