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30. Is dogma compatible with democracy?
Wed Mar 21, 2012, 01:30 PM
Mar 2012

I'm with JDPriestley on this one...that "top-down" Catholic hierarchy, authoritarianism, patriarchy, bullying, etc. are fundamentally inconsistent with the horizontal or bottom-up premises of democracy (and of our constitutional republic). That the two have lived together for centuries is the result of the American Catholics maintaining a "live and let live" posture -- until now, anyway.

I think they are setting up a strawman argument of "freedom of religion" versus "freedom of worship", hoping that the public will forget that it was not the protection of religious institutions but more highly personalized, and far less institutional, concern for "freedom of conscience" and free agency in religion that motivated Jefferson, Madison and most of the other founders of the nation. There's probably no better example of their clear preference for free individual discernment in religion, rather than the protection and preservation of its institutions, than what was said by Madison in his "Memorial and Remonstrance..." in 1785:

"...We hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth, that religion or the duty which we owe to our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence. The Religion then of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man; and it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate. This right is in its nature an unalienable right. It is unalienable, because the opinions of men, depending only on the evidence contemplated by their own minds cannot follow the dictates of other men: It is unalienable also, because what is here a right towards men, is a duty towards the Creator. It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such homage and such only as he believes to be acceptable to him...."

The American Catholics are at a crossroads, seems to me. They can try to plug the holes in their own leaking ship and try to perpetuate their own business as usual-- of authoritarian bullying, dogmatic protectionism, etc. or they can take the vision of the nation's founders to heart. Between dogma or democracy, honestly I don't see much middle-ground for them.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Can I use their reasoning TlalocW Mar 2012 #1
Then they should accept the consequences of their EC Mar 2012 #2
In countries with e.g. draft military tama Mar 2012 #5
let me know how that works out for them n/t deacon_sephiroth Mar 2012 #3
Is Christianity compatible with democracy? JDPriestly Mar 2012 #4
I think most of us DUers feel the same way, but about different laws. ZombieHorde Mar 2012 #6
True, in a way, but its more like a KKK member refusing to run their business... Humanist_Activist Mar 2012 #27
True but... LeftishBrit Mar 2012 #34
The Roman Catholic Church is Satan's playground Angry Dragon Mar 2012 #7
Jack Chick certainly agrees with you. trotsky Mar 2012 #9
You have an insulated view of "us". rug Mar 2012 #10
Why, do you think your church is Satan's playground instead? n/t trotsky Mar 2012 #11
Hardly. However I find it amusing when individuals speak in the plural. rug Mar 2012 #14
I do too. trotsky Mar 2012 #18
Yes but he's the Pope and you're an anonymous internet poster. rug Mar 2012 #21
So sheltering pedophiles affords one certain perks? trotsky Mar 2012 #23
I'm surprised you haven't thrown in the Crusades and the Inquisition. rug Mar 2012 #24
That was your pope's predecessors. trotsky Mar 2012 #28
Don't forget the Cathars. rug Mar 2012 #29
Yes, but trotsky has more integrity than the Pope. mr blur Mar 2012 #32
I'll take your word for it. rug Mar 2012 #33
The RCC is NOT run by corrupt old men? cleanhippie Mar 2012 #12
Are you one of the "us"? rug Mar 2012 #15
Is the RCC not run my corrupt old men? cleanhippie Mar 2012 #16
As a matter of fact, no. rug Mar 2012 #17
Is the head poo-bah, aka the pope, not implicated in the protecting of child-raping priests? cleanhippie Mar 2012 #19
You lost me at head poo-bah. rug Mar 2012 #20
This isn't a pissing contest, rug. It's the reality of the situation, and your unwillingness cleanhippie Mar 2012 #22
Lol. rug Mar 2012 #25
No I'm not. cleanhippie Mar 2012 #26
+1,000,000,000 trotsky Mar 2012 #31
Sounds like they are "all in" for the Republicans. Old and In the Way Mar 2012 #8
So does that mean that they'd recommend civil disobedience against war or economic or social LeftishBrit Mar 2012 #13
Is dogma compatible with democracy? E_Pluribus_Unitarian Mar 2012 #30
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