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In reply to the discussion: Is Free Will an Illusion? [View all]Jim__
(15,225 posts)3. A couple of thoughts.
First, take this excerpt from that article:
Scientists have postulated that consciousness is populations of neurons firing in certain brain areas, no more and no less. To most people, however, it seems bizarre to think that the distinctive tang of kumquats, say, is just a pattern of neural activation.
Our instincts about consciousness are triggered by specific cues, experimental philosophers explain, among them the existence of eyes and the appearance of goal-directed behavior, but not neurons. Studies indicate that peoples intuitions tell them that insectswhich, of course, have eyes and show goal-directed behaviorcan feel happiness, pain and anger.
The problem is that insects very likely lack the neural wherewithal for these sensations and emotions. What is more, engineers have programmed robots to display simple goal-directed behaviors, and these robots can produce the uncanny impression that they have feelings, even though the machines are not remotely plausible candidates for having awareness. In short, our instincts can lead us astray on this matter, too. Maybe consciousness does not have to be something different fromor above and beyondbrain processes.
Our instincts about consciousness are triggered by specific cues, experimental philosophers explain, among them the existence of eyes and the appearance of goal-directed behavior, but not neurons. Studies indicate that peoples intuitions tell them that insectswhich, of course, have eyes and show goal-directed behaviorcan feel happiness, pain and anger.
The problem is that insects very likely lack the neural wherewithal for these sensations and emotions. What is more, engineers have programmed robots to display simple goal-directed behaviors, and these robots can produce the uncanny impression that they have feelings, even though the machines are not remotely plausible candidates for having awareness. In short, our instincts can lead us astray on this matter, too. Maybe consciousness does not have to be something different fromor above and beyondbrain processes.
It really looks to me like the author confuses two issues. In the first paragraph of the excerpt, he tells us that our consciousness may be the result of the firing of populations of certain neurons. Yes, I think it is - but I'm not sure what that tells us. Then he goes on to point out that our perception of consciousness in others can be mistaken. Yes, it can. But what does that tell us about our own consciousness? Can our awareness that we are aware be mistaken? The problem of consciousness is how simple neuronal activity, essentially discrete fire/don't fire activity, can raise self-awareness. The argument he uses about our perception of consciousness in others tells us nothing about our own consciousness; and it's our own consciousness that is the issue.
As to whether or not we have free will, the question is open. A good article that presents the other side from what this article presented is Towards a scientific concept of free will as a biological trait ( http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2010/12/14/rspb.2010.2325.full )
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Within the context of some religions for whom it is a key doctrinal element...yup.
iris27
Dec 2011
#6
The alternative is not predestination, but rather that the unconscious makes most of the decisions
FarCenter
Dec 2011
#24
If one has no choices, and if (in particular) one has no choice about the positions
struggle4progress
Dec 2011
#8