Religion

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)

152. A very un-brilliant composition, IMHO.

Reply to beam me up scottie (Original post)

Mon Nov 3, 2014, 11:04 AM

Nov 2014

Austin Cline. Well, I'm glad the gentleman is gainfully employed, but he doesn't speak for anyone but himself and his circle.

The only thing that can explain the obsession I see in these groups over definitions and superiority is some personal trauma in individual's past.

I feel for them, but I also feel fortunate that I don't share these particular problems with others' belief systems.

We are adults, free to choose, even if that choice is seen to a person as not a choice but a universal truism like "only one God" or "no gods, no way, no god for anyone, no god for you!".

To me, it's just comical. But I know it's painful for some who have been hurt. I just wish they wouldn't express that hurt in hurtful ways.

~~~~

Theism is strict adherence to a particular doctrine that includes at least one god. Atheism is the abject rejection of Theism, of any belief system. Both are, by definition, intolerant of others.

Agnosticism is, simply, not gnostic, or not knowing. Agnostics, unlike atheists, don't particularly care because they don't know. They are, IMHO, the most tolerant among the three groups described here.

You know that little thing on a sundial, you might call it a pointer?

That's called a Gnomon. It's the part that knows (and tells) the time!

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Highlight:

Agnosticism for Idiots; or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the People Who Hate Atheists [View all] beam me up scottie Nov 2014 OP

Who the hell cares??? elleng Nov 2014 #1

I think you won the thread right out of the gate! nt MADem Nov 2014 #96

I love that about elleng! NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #184

Only if you're very privileged... MellowDem Nov 2014 #101

I have been agnostic for as long as I can remember and I'll say again, elleng Nov 2014 #108

Lots of people care... MellowDem Nov 2014 #147

"I don't wear labels to provide targets for those who disagree and feel like fighting." beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #213

So you don't like agnostics either. rug Nov 2014 #2

Right, because posting an accurate definition of something is me not "liking" agnostics beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #3

Ah. rug Nov 2014 #4

Context is everything: beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #5

Oh the context was clear. So was the fact that the author is an atheist not an agnostic. rug Nov 2014 #7

Context is everything: AlbertCat Nov 2014 #123

There is a lot of truth in those highlighted statements. Curmudgeoness Nov 2014 #37

There's a lot more bile. rug Nov 2014 #65

Victim blaming again... MellowDem Nov 2014 #181

What victim? Are you claiming to be a victim, persecuted? rug Nov 2014 #192

You're claiming its atheist's fault.... MellowDem Nov 2014 #195

Oh, cry me a river. rug Nov 2014 #196

You said atheists are to blame... MellowDem Nov 2014 #197

My words are quite clear. They don't need you to rework them. rug Nov 2014 #198

I'm an atheist. Maedhros Nov 2014 #47

Let me know if I ever tell religious people that they're emotionally damaged and need help beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #48

Trust me, it's hard. Maedhros Nov 2014 #52

Wow. beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #56

Is it the fear, or the Paxil that was prescribed to "fix" it? Maedhros Nov 2014 #69

That's a really good question. beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #70

I've been very honest with him regarding how I think his medication may be altering his behavior. Maedhros Nov 2014 #95

Here you go: rug Nov 2014 #66

Way to misrepresent the op, rug. Here's the context (you seem to be having trouble with that) beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #68

I'm so sorry the words you typed misrepresent you. rug Nov 2014 #115

This is not directed at you rug LostOne4Ever Nov 2014 #143

Unlike in A&A, that bastion of freethought, I am free to comment here. rug Nov 2014 #150

Okay LostOne4Ever Nov 2014 #163

Was anyone doing that? rug Nov 2014 #164

Yes LostOne4Ever Nov 2014 #166

I always define "agnostic" as an atheist who doesn't like the term "atheist" arcane1 Nov 2014 #6

Well, it's upsetting because it's incorrect. beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #8

As I said, the end result is the same: non-theism. arcane1 Nov 2014 #12

But definitions are not a matter of opinion, words have specific meanings. beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #32

Agnosticism - No Belief For - No Belief Against - Only No One Can Know Either Way cantbeserious Nov 2014 #9

Agnosticism= no belief skepticscott Nov 2014 #10

Has Nothing To Do With Courage - Has Everything To Do With No Evidence cantbeserious Nov 2014 #11

Exactly skepticscott Nov 2014 #14

Wrong Again - No Evidence For God - No Evidence For No God - No Evidence Either Way cantbeserious Nov 2014 #17

Which makes you an atheist skepticscott Nov 2014 #21

No - Wrong Again - Neither Theist - Neither Atheist - Leaves One At Agnosticism cantbeserious Nov 2014 #23

As noted, you're an atheist, whether you decide to call yourself one or not skepticscott Nov 2014 #26

False Equivalency - One Of The Logical Fallacies - Meat Is Testable As Real - God Is Not cantbeserious Nov 2014 #29

Yes, God is testable skepticscott Nov 2014 #55

More Ridicule - The Reliance On Logical Fallacy Is Telling cantbeserious Nov 2014 #63

Oh, please link to that test. rug Nov 2014 #67

Does it involve a test tube and litmus paper, I wonder? nt MADem Nov 2014 #97

I have no idea but it apparently involves a microscope. rug Nov 2014 #112

Here You Go - A Website All About Logical Fallacies cantbeserious Nov 2014 #126

I'd say it was an appeal to nonexistent authority. rug Nov 2014 #127

Good Call cantbeserious Nov 2014 #128

ROFLs aside, you couldn't be more wrong. NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #173

Talk about couldn't be more wrong skepticscott Nov 2014 #177

"your friends at the yacht club"? You don't speak for atheists I've met. They're above petty shit. NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #183

What the hell are you talking about? Act_of_Reparation Nov 2014 #186

Exactly as I said, thank you for taking the time to post the links, will bookmark. NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #190

Yeah, you do that. Act_of_Reparation Nov 2014 #191

Apparently words are more complicated skepticscott Nov 2014 #193

I would like to think honesty is the problem here. Act_of_Reparation Nov 2014 #194

This message was self-deleted by its author cbayer Nov 2014 #206

I wouldn't waste your time, bigots will always try to redefine 'atheism' to foster intolerance. beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #199

If I'd posted an OP skepticscott Nov 2014 #189

You fundamentally don't understand the concept of empiricism, cheapdate Nov 2014 #129

If I WERE stubbornly insisting otherwise skepticscott Nov 2014 #133

As you would define belief, there are only two positions. cheapdate Nov 2014 #134

It is duly noted that you avoided addressing any of the points I made skepticscott Nov 2014 #135

True, false, indeterminate. cheapdate Nov 2014 #139

Show me that you even understand skepticscott Nov 2014 #141

Exactly what I expected. cheapdate Nov 2014 #142

Sometimes we can't make any determination of the likelihood skepticscott Nov 2014 #144

Is this a "properly defined claim"? cheapdate Nov 2014 #145

You're confusing claims skepticscott Nov 2014 #149

"No evidence has been observed to prove that God exists." cheapdate Nov 2014 #151

Sigh gcomeau Nov 2014 #136

Agnostic - No Evidence For - No Evidence Against - See One Definition Below cantbeserious Nov 2014 #137

Yes I'm aware of the popular and very very wrong definition. gcomeau Nov 2014 #138

Agnosticism is more dogmatic than atheism. rogerashton Nov 2014 #13

You've touched the salient point skepticscott Nov 2014 #16

How Is A Lack Of Facts At Odds With Logic And Reason cantbeserious Nov 2014 #19

Taking contradictory positions skepticscott Nov 2014 #22

How Can No Evidence Lead To Contrary Positions - No Evidence For - No Evidence Against cantbeserious Nov 2014 #25

It was explained to you skepticscott Nov 2014 #28

Appears That The Explanation Cannot Account For Either No Evidence For Or No Evidence Against cantbeserious Nov 2014 #30

You think a person who believes in something without evidence stands on equally logical footing Act_of_Reparation Nov 2014 #168

Would Agree - To Agnostics - Theists And Atheists Are Equally Irrational cantbeserious Nov 2014 #18

Ask yourself the same question skepticscott Nov 2014 #24

Belief Is Not Based On Factual Evidence - Belief By Nature Is Irrational cantbeserious Nov 2014 #27

You just asked in post 19 skepticscott Nov 2014 #31

Ridicule - Another Logical Fallacy - No Facts To Either Support Or Dispute The Existence Of God cantbeserious Nov 2014 #35

As an atheist I don't "dispute" the existence of gods. beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #36

If Gods Don't Exist - Why Does Anyone Have Anything To Not Believe In cantbeserious Nov 2014 #38

And the winner of the prize for the most Irrational Comment of the Day... beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #40

Ridicule - One Of The Logical Fallacies - Congratulations - Your Reliance On Logical Fallacy Is Noted cantbeserious Nov 2014 #41

If Santa Claus Doesn't Exist - Why Does Anyone Have Anything To Not Believe In? beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #43

Ridicule At Work Again - False Equivalency At Work Again - Santa Claus Is Not God cantbeserious Nov 2014 #45

Both are beings with no evidence they exist. Lordquinton Nov 2014 #92

I dunno--I saw Santa at the mall last year~! nt MADem Nov 2014 #98

people see jesus in a pancake all the time. Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #116

Well, that pancake didn't ask the kiddies what they wanted for Xmas! nt MADem Nov 2014 #130

Actually, there is far more evidence that Santa exists skepticscott Nov 2014 #109

Careful with that logical fallacy bit Lordquinton Nov 2014 #57

Ridicule Is A Form Of Ad Hominen Attack - An Identified And Defined Logical Fallacy cantbeserious Nov 2014 #64

ridicule is not ad hom Goblinmonger Nov 2014 #110

Which Is The Case At DU Quite Regularly cantbeserious Nov 2014 #111

Not as much as you are claiming it is. Goblinmonger Nov 2014 #113

All Experience At DU Is Relative - Just As It Is In Other Non-Internet Life cantbeserious Nov 2014 #114

Fallacies aren't relative. Goblinmonger Nov 2014 #118

Logical Fallacies Are Errors Of Reasoning Used In Debating Discourse - One Being Ridicule cantbeserious Nov 2014 #124

Appeal to Ridicule is an informal fallacy at best. Goblinmonger Nov 2014 #131

Ridicule At DU Is Most Often An Ad Hominen Attack Disguised As Ridicule cantbeserious Nov 2014 #132

sometimes we see absurd hole digging here, in your case you aren't doing that Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #117

More Ridicule - A Form Of Ad Hominen Attack cantbeserious Nov 2014 #125

Ridicule is also quite rightly used on the ridiculous. (n/t) Iggo Nov 2014 #156

It's even funnier when someone trying to ridicule can't do it right. rug Nov 2014 #158

You've obviously done your research. beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #42

Theism And Atheism Both Require Belief - But Not Facts - Since No Facts Exist For Either Position cantbeserious Nov 2014 #46

Atheism is the absence of belief. Your irrational belief to the contrary isn't based on facts. beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #49

Atheism Requires Belief That No God Exists - Atheism Is Not Based On Fact - Just Like Theism cantbeserious Nov 2014 #62

Like fuck it does. AtheistCrusader Nov 2014 #72

Vulgarity - Very Poor Form cantbeserious Nov 2014 #73

Your busted-assed logic was pretty poor form too. AtheistCrusader Nov 2014 #74

Logic Is Sound - Both Theism And Atheism Rely On Untestable Assertions cantbeserious Nov 2014 #75

a- is a prefix that means WITHOUT. AtheistCrusader Nov 2014 #76

OK - Prove That God Does Not Exist - Can't Be Done - The Assertion Is Untestable - Hence, A Belief cantbeserious Nov 2014 #78

I don't need to prove god doesn't exist. People who believe in him, do. AtheistCrusader Nov 2014 #79

OK - Prove That God Does Exist - Can't Be Done - The Assertion Is Untestable - Hence, A Belief cantbeserious Nov 2014 #80

I am an agnostic atheist. AtheistCrusader Nov 2014 #81

So Without God And Without Certainty About God - Quite The Conundrum cantbeserious Nov 2014 #82

Not for me. It's a natural state for any person who AtheistCrusader Nov 2014 #84

Glad You Found A Spectrum Of Belief That Provides Comfort cantbeserious Nov 2014 #85

Non-belief. AtheistCrusader Nov 2014 #86

Not Quite - Per The Definitions And Qualifications Provided - As Long As They Serve You - All Is Well cantbeserious Nov 2014 #88

I see talking to you was a complete waste of time. AtheistCrusader Nov 2014 #90

You noticed that, eh? skepticscott Nov 2014 #121

a-theism means without god, not without belief rogerashton Nov 2014 #105

"Theos" means God, the derivative term "theism" does NOT. gcomeau Nov 2014 #140

without belief in a deity. AtheistCrusader Nov 2014 #148

Oh boy, it's this bullshit again. AtheistCrusader Nov 2014 #71

rationalism rogerashton Nov 2014 #104

Atheism is a rejection of a claim. No belief is required. phil89 Nov 2014 #179

Dictionary.com definition of agnosticism (for those who think the source in the op is biased) beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #15

When asked I sometimes just say safeinOhio Nov 2014 #20

Where I live it's risky to say even that. beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #34

You must have read my post Curmudgeoness Nov 2014 #33

It is easier (and safer in some areas). beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #39

And still, Curmudgeoness Nov 2014 #44

That's the religious privilege we're told doesn't exist. beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #51

Uh....in the military, when they ask you to fill in the blank to state your religious preference, MADem Nov 2014 #99

Uh, first, he's my brother. beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #100

That's just not accurate. If you were "bullied" by a drill sergeant you should have reported it. MADem Nov 2014 #102

Just because you don't personally witness discrimination doesn't mean it doesn't exist. beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #106

The Services are cutting their ranks by the tens of thousands. The Army alone MADem Nov 2014 #107

I really hate believe or lack of belief lables. Kalidurga Nov 2014 #50

If you think that "bible god doesn't exist and that is a given" you're probably an atheist. beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #53

I agree redefining a term to make the person using it more comfortable is infuriating Kalidurga Nov 2014 #58

That's why I posted definitions. beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #60

I have a hard time not being honest Kalidurga Nov 2014 #61

You must have a huge problem skepticscott Nov 2014 #54

You got that right Kalidurga Nov 2014 #59

Yeah, it's pretty silly skepticscott Nov 2014 #120

I have decided that I am not my world view. ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #77

Typical DU Joe Turner Nov 2014 #83

Threads like these get the biggest hits? beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #87

I don't think atheism should be abolished. Joe Turner Nov 2014 #89

Just as well, it would be a little difficult to abolish non-belief in gods. beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #91

Ok fair enough...perhaps I was a presumptous jackass Joe Turner Nov 2014 #93

S'okay beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #94

Perhaps you hadn't noticed skepticscott Nov 2014 #119

This is Democratic Underground. Most of us--not all--but most of us support seeing more MADem Nov 2014 #103

The despair I feel about our political nightmare brings me here for distraction. Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #122

Can agree with this Dorian Gray Nov 2014 #146

A very un-brilliant composition, IMHO. NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #152

Wow, that's amazingly judgmental of you. trotsky Nov 2014 #161

Everyone's a "know it all" but.... NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #162

I'm an atheist and I readily admit I'm not sure. trotsky Nov 2014 #165

I don't follow Dawkins. And of course there are shades of grey. NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #167

When you see someone who is constantly bickering with members of an unpopular minority Fumesucker Nov 2014 #169

Frankly, I haven't read those things, and I don't doubt that they've been written. NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #176

Do you only see one side as acting in a juvenile manner? Fumesucker Nov 2014 #185

By no means do I discount their plight, neither do I presume a stranger's condition. NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #187

Start at six or seven years old and tell someone they are bad, wicked for asking certain questions Fumesucker Nov 2014 #212

And in your professional experience skepticscott Nov 2014 #170

I appreciate your measure and rational reply. NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #175

That post just pegged skepticscott Nov 2014 #178

Guarded? Bullshit. trotsky Nov 2014 #171

There is no question whatsoever that among believers and agnostics, some folks are mean. NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #174

Tone trolling. Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #180

More bullshit. trotsky Nov 2014 #182

Yes, it's pretty pathetic skepticscott Nov 2014 #188

Case in point Act_of_Reparation Nov 2014 #172

Do you write for conservapedia? beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #200

No, but I've contributed to Scientific American, the Journal of the American Institute of Architects NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #202

Fighting bigots is frustrating, the anger directed at the bigots is simply a by product beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #204

Yet another pointless A vs. A thread. longship Nov 2014 #153

You presume, along with some other frequent posters here skepticscott Nov 2014 #154

This thread is ample evidence. longship Nov 2014 #155

Who said you did? Why are you dodging the actual question? skepticscott Nov 2014 #157

Incoming pointless chair throwing. rug Nov 2014 #159

Best to stay below the fray. longship Nov 2014 #160

I care when they try to redefine ME in order to spread lies about atheists. beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #201

Yup! That's what pisses me off, too. longship Nov 2014 #203

Yeah, that loud whoooooooshing sound you just heard... beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #205

Well, the entire A vs A argument is idiotic. longship Nov 2014 #207

Thanks, it's really not an A vs A argument. beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #208

Well, I live in very rural Michigan. longship Nov 2014 #209

Yes, there is that. beam me up scottie Nov 2014 #210

Good night, Mr. Beam me up. longship Nov 2014 #211