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Religion
In reply to the discussion: New Atheism, Old Empire [View all]AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)159. That is his justification for support/aid to moderate muslims, because they MUST
win the war of ideas (his words, indicating non-violence) with the extremists.
You are ALTERING THE CONTEXT of what he is saying. It is deceptive, and immoral to do so. Anyone who read that paragraph without the rest of the piece he authored would also come to that conclusion, because you have scrubbed the actual intent.
Harris is NOT advocating military action/first strike. He is laying out a worst case consequence IF we/Islamic moderates fail.
It should be of particular concern to us that the beliefs of Muslims pose a special problem for nuclear deterrence. There is little possibility of our having a cold war with an Islamist regime armed with long-range nuclear weapons. A cold war requires that the parties be mutually deterred by the threat of death. Notions of martyrdom and jihad run roughshod over the logic that allowed the United States and the Soviet Union to pass half a century perched, more or less stably, on the brink of Armageddon. What will we do if an Islamist regime, which grows dewy-eyed at the mere mention of paradise, ever acquires long-range nuclear weaponry? If history is any guide, we will not be sure about where the offending warheads are or what their state of readiness is, and so we will be unable to rely on targeted, conventional weapons to destroy them. In such a situation, the only thing likely to ensure our survival may be a nuclear first strike of our own. Needless to say, this would be an unthinkable crimeas it would kill tens of millions of innocent civilians in a single daybut it may be the only course of action available to us, given what Islamists believe. How would such an unconscionable act of self-defense be perceived by the rest of the Muslim world? It would likely be seen as the first incursion of a genocidal crusade. The horrible irony here is that seeing could make it so: this very perception could plunge us into a state of hot war with any Muslim state that had the capacity to pose a nuclear threat of its own. All of this is perfectly insane, of course: I have just described a plausible scenario in which much of the worlds population could be annihilated on account of religious ideas that belong on the same shelf with Batman, the philosophers stone, and unicorns. That it would be a horrible absurdity for so many of us to die for the sake of myth does not mean, however, that it could not happen. Indeed, given the immunity to all reasonable intrusions that faith enjoys in our discourse, a catastrophe of this sort seems increasingly likely. We must come to terms with the possibility that men who are every bit as zealous to die as the nineteen hijackers may one day get their hands on long-range nuclear weaponry. The Muslim world in particular must anticipate this possibility and find some way to prevent it. Given the steady proliferation of technology, it is safe to say that time is not on our side.
Emphasis by Harris himself, in his own words.
This is the only thing Harris is exhorting ANYONE to DO in those articles:
"Muslim moderates, wherever they are, must be given every tool necessary to win a war of ideas with their coreligionists."
Bombing them with atomic weapons, as you seem fixated on attributing to him, would be counter-productive to that aim. One, it would inflame moderates, and two, it would kill a shitload of moderates. Bombing people isn't something any rational person could equate with 'giving them every tool necessary'.
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I looked, didn't find anything egregious. Rug's taken a stab, fell short of the mark too.
AtheistCrusader
Dec 2014
#42
He's cautioning against a possibility, not cheerleading for it. Reading Comprehension; The More You
AtheistCrusader
Dec 2014
#44
"we are attempting, at considerable cost to ourselves, to improve life for the Iraqi people."
rug
Dec 2014
#54
"Muslim moderates, wherever they are, must be given every tool necessary to win a war of ideas with
AtheistCrusader
Dec 2014
#48
Except he's not doing that, AND even if I accepted 'apologist' he still
AtheistCrusader
Dec 2014
#67
"...but it may be the only course of action available to us, given what Islamists believe." (nt)
stone space
Dec 2014
#76
Yes, if you slice and dice and chop it out all context of the 'what'/'go-do' you can make the 'why'
AtheistCrusader
Dec 2014
#90
Slice it and dice it however you want. Nuclear genocide is still genocide. (nt)
stone space
Dec 2014
#91
And you still seem confused that it's a WARNING and not an exhortation.
AtheistCrusader
Dec 2014
#97
Except that's the only option after YOU distill his entire message down to that.
AtheistCrusader
Dec 2014
#107
Well, you are clearly determined to misconstrue his statement to craft that narrative, sure.
AtheistCrusader
Dec 2014
#106
Religion isn't a race. One of your examples assumes race as a modifier to crime rates.
AtheistCrusader
Dec 2014
#113
Here's what a war cheerleader posted in GD during Israel's recent aggressions against the Gaza Strip
cpwm17
Dec 2014
#139
So now you should go back to your previous belief and acknowledge that he is a warmonger
cpwm17
Dec 2014
#144
That is his justification for support/aid to moderate muslims, because they MUST
AtheistCrusader
Dec 2014
#159
Yes, I would say that to mount this kind of unemotional and heavily researched attack
cbayer
Dec 2014
#4
Oh please, the image is a photoshop collage. It reveals nothing except the biases of the author that
AtheistCrusader
Dec 2014
#27
"He'll be collecting his brownie points and getting his promotion soon."
AtheistCrusader
Dec 2014
#151
They have done this by promoting a popular cause within a community that would otherwise
cbayer
Dec 2014
#13
To my mind the NAs are more in the mold of the original neocons than neo-liberals.
unrepentant progress
Dec 2014
#83
It's funny how the only people who have trouble knowing the meaning of 'New Atheism'...
unrepentant progress
Dec 2014
#9
Fallacy; category: Loaded Question. Example: "Have you stopped beating your wife?"
AtheistCrusader
Dec 2014
#114
I took issue with the wording of Post 89, because of the implicit characterization of the exchange
AtheistCrusader
Dec 2014
#121
They're still mad we don't have leaders. (Hint: It's because we're not followers.)
Iggo
Dec 2014
#33
At face value, Daniel Dennett is one of the 3 New Atheists, and Hitchens is not
muriel_volestrangler
Dec 2014
#35
Yes indeed. Theists are doing a fine job in making this world a shithole.
Warren Stupidity
Dec 2014
#53
The Four Horsemen of New Atheism, according to people who hate New Atheism:
Act_of_Reparation
Dec 2014
#72
If it's just a subgroup of "New Atheists" then it isn't about "New Atheism," and the title is false
trotsky
Dec 2014
#105
I note you manage to 'expand' the list without managing to include any women.
AtheistCrusader
Dec 2014
#112
Followers of the twin religions of Militarism and Nuclearism have no business...
stone space
Dec 2014
#77
atheism says absolutely nothing about "militarism" or "?nuclearism?" <--wtf?
Warren Stupidity
Dec 2014
#101
that's Gramsci--"materialism" means you start with the material--then work up in layers
MisterP
Dec 2014
#167
Oh wow. Thanks for the link to the collection of Watson Heston comics.
unrepentant progress
Dec 2014
#176
As a matter of interest, what is the message you take from that page of that book?
muriel_volestrangler
Dec 2014
#195
Avoidance? Please. I directly answered the non-specific question that you asked.
Jim__
Dec 2014
#170
Yes I do understand that the question is uncomfortable and responding with a non answer
Warren Stupidity
Dec 2014
#187
I agree with you and can't really add much so I haven't said anything
unrepentant progress
Dec 2014
#188