Religion

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)

196. I'm not asking you to believe it

Sun Dec 14, 2014, 05:47 PM

Dec 2014

1) Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The fact is, you can't prove there is no heaven. You might want to call that an inanity to poison the well but it's still true.

2) Those of us who believe do have evidence. When we pray, we experience the presence of our deity. This is called gnosis. Now, that gnosis is, by definition, subjective and personal; it cannot be shared with others. You don't believe it, fair enough. If I didn't experience it, I probably wouldn't believe it either. But I am stating my personal beliefs, I am not asking you to believe them, so the lack of evidence I can present to you is irrelevant.

3) I never said there was anything especially noble or virtuous about my beliefs. I haven't presented my beliefs as any better or worse than those of anyone else, I haven't asked anyone to share them. I simply stated my beliefs. That you, with the sneering supercilliousness common to some atheists on DU, seem to want to be a dick about.

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"Dogs in Heaven? Pope Francis Leaves Pearly Gate Open" [View all] Silent3 Dec 2014 OP

What about mosquitos? Ron Obvious Dec 2014 #1

One of the issues I always had with the concept of heaven cbayer Dec 2014 #4

I think all those little uncomplicated souls get recycled back to earth. hunter Dec 2014 #26

So they do promote Wall Street Bankers in the after life! iscooterliberally Dec 2014 #53

Small steps. hunter Dec 2014 #56

Shit. bvf Dec 2014 #2

Centipedes are Satan's pets. Goblinmonger Dec 2014 #6

I am completely on board with that. n/t. bvf Dec 2014 #23

Just for you: muriel_volestrangler Dec 2014 #96

Aw, that was sweet of you, Muriel. bvf Dec 2014 #115

Me too!! Rosa Luxemburg Dec 2014 #201

That's cool and harmless. cbayer Dec 2014 #3

Sure, the ones written that intentionally misconstrue or misrepresent his words DO read like that cleanhippie Dec 2014 #5

Harmless and absurd aren't mutually exclusive. Silent3 Dec 2014 #12

So what? If you don't believe in heaven, it makes no difference. cbayer Dec 2014 #20

Spending time with sick people doesn't require... Silent3 Dec 2014 #21

It most certainly require that at times, but it's all about definitions. cbayer Dec 2014 #27

Please do provide the necessary unprejudiced definitions... Silent3 Dec 2014 #70

Is there a problem with making the world safer for nicey-nice comforting cbayer Dec 2014 #71

Yes, there is a problem with that... Silent3 Dec 2014 #73

It's always such a delight talking with you Silent3. cbayer Dec 2014 #74

LOL.. whathehell Dec 2014 #75

Be kind. His polling place was recently moved to a church and cbayer Dec 2014 #76

Oh the horror! whathehell Dec 2014 #78

No, when she does it, it's tolerant and wonderful. trotsky Dec 2014 #22

and "comforting words for children" and "degraded" are not synonymous. whathehell Dec 2014 #44

Nor did what I posted depend on those words being synonymous... Silent3 Dec 2014 #72

Sure if we want a society of grownups who believe in fairy tales it is harmless. Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #31

Um, you've not noticed that everyone doesn't considers the concept of God a "fairy tale"? whathehell Dec 2014 #48

A fairy tale is a fairy tale independent of the existence of Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #49

Wow...Is that the best you've got? whathehell Dec 2014 #57

Actually lets take a look at the crapfest of voodoo bullshit el popey was wading through. Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #62

Let's not. Anyone who claims to want to 'discuss' something he's already whathehell Dec 2014 #64

Oh, it's not harmless. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #37

Maybe some could bag the snark long enough to appreciate the pope's kindness to a grieving child.. whathehell Dec 2014 #7

Really? Like that took a lot for him? Goblinmonger Dec 2014 #11

Now that is a great idea! Let's give it a try. cbayer Dec 2014 #25

"Kindness"? bvf Dec 2014 #18

Yes, look it up. whathehell Dec 2014 #40

So did the pope lie to him? Lordquinton Dec 2014 #58

I'm not aware that there was any "dogma" regarding it to begin with.. whathehell Dec 2014 #61

The article states that it's a point of debate in the church Lordquinton Dec 2014 #80

The fact that it's still being debated whathehell Dec 2014 #82

Grown adults debate this. bvf Dec 2014 #91

Yeah.. whathehell Dec 2014 #95

But the pope is not debating the rights of animals muriel_volestrangler Dec 2014 #97

You can quote the pope's statement, but your dismissive assumption about whathehell Dec 2014 #98

So it's something we should all ignore, then muriel_volestrangler Dec 2014 #99

Actually, I'm less inclined than you, it seems, to decide what "we should all do". whathehell Dec 2014 #102

I alerted on its appearance in LBN, because it's not a news story muriel_volestrangler Dec 2014 #103

Tell it to the OP, dear, and whoever published the "not really news" story whathehell Dec 2014 #121

We're not talking about animal rights here. bvf Dec 2014 #114

Sorry, but "we" are not all atheists here, much as that clearly annoys you, and whathehell Dec 2014 #120

Uh, I didn't bring up animal rights. bvf Dec 2014 #123

Uh, I don't believe I indicated I had a problem with the topic, whathehell Dec 2014 #125

So how do you imagine bvf Dec 2014 #129

My dear, please check my posts whathehell Dec 2014 #135

I've been around long enough bvf Dec 2014 #136

No-one here is your 'dear' - not bvf, and not me muriel_volestrangler Dec 2014 #143

Post removed Post removed Dec 2014 #148

I encourage everyone to read post #148, to get the feel of whathehell's attitude muriel_volestrangler Dec 2014 #158

Almost seems as if there's a template. n/t. bvf Dec 2014 #172

Well unfortunately now skepticscott Dec 2014 #190

It is edhopper Dec 2014 #193

Wow, nice. n/t trotsky Dec 2014 #208

And what about teddy bears and other stuffed animals? Silent3 Dec 2014 #205

For almost all of them they are doing so while munching away on one of these animals whose rights Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #127

LOL..You have stats on Vegan Catholics vs. Vegan Everyone Else? whathehell Dec 2014 #131

Is the pope a vegetarian? Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #151

Uh, wrong pope.. whathehell Dec 2014 #154

A spiritual context? phil89 Dec 2014 #156

So if he stated it was true he would be attempting to change said dogma Lordquinton Dec 2014 #110

Whatever, Lord, lol.. whathehell Dec 2014 #119

He sometimes even preached to them: struggle4progress Dec 2014 #106

Excerpt that was Paul VI who did that, some time in the 60s or 70s muriel_volestrangler Dec 2014 #87

Not going to happen. It's a sport. cbayer Dec 2014 #24

So, uh, when you post that picture to badmouth others... trotsky Dec 2014 #29

I like that. (nt) stone space Dec 2014 #30

Another quote bvf Dec 2014 #33

What about what we say about the IDEAS that other people hold? AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #39

There are ways to comfort grieving people without lying to them. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #38

Apparently you couldn't skepticscott Dec 2014 #191

I believe my pets are coming with me to heaven. hrmjustin Dec 2014 #8

For what it's worth, I believe they are indeed going the same place you are. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #41

Yes. hrmjustin Dec 2014 #43

Here? Silent3 Dec 2014 #206

Well, you can't leave the Pearly Gates open like that! TlalocW Dec 2014 #9

Pearly Dog Doors? n/t Goblinmonger Dec 2014 #10

Call the Baja Men, we just found the man they are looking for Lordquinton Dec 2014 #59

Trosqui (2/2/2000 - 11/26/2014) stone space Dec 2014 #13

I am so sorry for your loss! hrmjustin Dec 2014 #14

Thank you. stone space Dec 2014 #15

It is so hard to lose a pet. hrmjustin Dec 2014 #16

What a little cutie that guy was. n/t Goblinmonger Dec 2014 #17

Beautiful. I have 3 rescue dogs. benz380 Dec 2014 #55

So sorry for the loss of your pup. okasha Dec 2014 #77

If only the "New Atheists" could be more intellectual. trotsky Dec 2014 #19

If only the Old and New could be more tolerant of the beliefs of others.. whathehell Dec 2014 #45

Yeah, *we're* the intolerant ones. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #47

For an example of being 'a tad less dickish', please see #148 (nt) muriel_volestrangler Dec 2014 #160

We'll add "the status of pets and farm animals in the afterlife" to the list of Serious Theology muriel_volestrangler Dec 2014 #163

Wow. After millions of years of past creatures, dinosaurs Lint Head Dec 2014 #28

Wow. That's a really narrow POV. cbayer Dec 2014 #32

Wow! You sure are knowledgeable about the specifics of Heaven and the Lint Head Dec 2014 #34

No, I know absolutely nothing about it, and wouldn't dare speculate on the size. cbayer Dec 2014 #35

Wow. bvf Dec 2014 #36

Where did I say I don't believe? Nowhere. You are making Lint Head Dec 2014 #50

I wasn't responding to you. bvf Dec 2014 #67

I see. I apologize. Lint Head Dec 2014 #81

Honest mistake. No foul. n/t bvf Dec 2014 #83

What did you expect, LOL? whathehell Dec 2014 #46

+2000 Lint Head Dec 2014 #51

Linthead, I think you may have misunderstood.. whathehell Dec 2014 #122

+3000 Lint Head Dec 2014 #142

"My experience is that there are more angry Christians" -- Not on this board! whathehell Dec 2014 #159

You must be referring to all those millions of Christians skepticscott Dec 2014 #66

Yes. bvf Dec 2014 #84

Gee, I missed the part that said "Our Father who art in the sky". rug Dec 2014 #86

Think christian iconography. bvf Dec 2014 #89

Think what you're saying. rug Dec 2014 #93

"You're free of course to keep the popular view, no matter how incorrect that may be." Lordquinton Dec 2014 #111

You know, changing my words to reflect what's in your head doesn't really work. rug Dec 2014 #126

Nobody changed your words. bvf Dec 2014 #183

You mean like, "You mean like . . . ." rug Dec 2014 #185

I am. bvf Dec 2014 #112

Are you certain or uncertain of your own view? rug Dec 2014 #130

As certain as science. bvf Dec 2014 #132

Science has no opinion on the attributes of heaven. rug Dec 2014 #134

Precisely. bvf Dec 2014 #137

Then your certainty must rest on something else. rug Dec 2014 #138

Why do you say that? bvf Dec 2014 #141

Because you agreed science is mute on the topic of this thread. rug Dec 2014 #144

Science is mute? bvf Dec 2014 #145

Science is mute on imaginary topics edhopper Dec 2014 #146

Science is mute on topics it is incompetent to address. rug Dec 2014 #150

So who is competent edhopper Dec 2014 #152

People who approach the subject honestly. rug Dec 2014 #153

Where do these honest people edhopper Dec 2014 #155

Philosophy, scriptures, physics, metaphysics. rug Dec 2014 #157

Which part of Aristotle edhopper Dec 2014 #161

Start with Book XII, substances and the prime mover. rug Dec 2014 #164

I think the idea of the prime mover edhopper Dec 2014 #166

Frankly, I'd prefer to reread Aristotle than to read a comment dismissing his ideas, for any reason, rug Dec 2014 #167

I have read Aridtotle edhopper Dec 2014 #175

Have a nice stroll. rug Dec 2014 #177

I explained my problem with your approach edhopper Dec 2014 #178

Life is full of dashed hopes. rug Dec 2014 #179

They might have been edhopper Dec 2014 #180

Of course it is on this topic. rug Dec 2014 #147

What about them? stone space Dec 2014 #90

You posted this same thing in reply skepticscott Dec 2014 #100

Do I have to remind you what you were whining about? stone space Dec 2014 #105

Do I have to remind you what I was responding to? skepticscott Dec 2014 #107

The video doesn't mention any "Sky Daddies". stone space Dec 2014 #108

Tell you what skepticscott Dec 2014 #109

OK, so you have no answer. stone space Dec 2014 #118

Sorry, were you still under the misbegotten impression skepticscott Dec 2014 #140

Our FATHER (daddy) who art in HEAVEN (sky) Silent3 Dec 2014 #186

Let me guess. They're waiting for a bolt of lightning... stone space Dec 2014 #192

That some people often recite prayers as if they were magical incantations... Silent3 Dec 2014 #194

Don't forget the billion-billion-trillions of bacteria. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #42

LOLOLOLOLOL! Lint Head Dec 2014 #52

Since this is DU and not a subreddit, this thread notwithstanding, I'll add this. rug Dec 2014 #54

What does it mean to me personally? Silent3 Dec 2014 #69

It is easy to dismiss but there should be a core understanding of it. rug Dec 2014 #85

Core understanding. Right. bvf Dec 2014 #88

Right. rug Dec 2014 #94

Right. bvf Dec 2014 #113

I see what your problem is. You don't know the difference between phrenology and theolgy. rug Dec 2014 #133

Perhaps you could enlighten me. bvf Dec 2014 #139

Hint: one concerns bumps. rug Dec 2014 #149

And...? bvf Dec 2014 #169

The path to enlightenment is trod by one's own feet. rug Dec 2014 #170

Been there. bvf Dec 2014 #174

There is a theory you may or may not have heard whathehell Dec 2014 #162

Hmm, outside of science fiction, no, I haven't. rug Dec 2014 #165

Some who believe in an afterlife whathehell Dec 2014 #168

No, dimensions, however many there may be, are natural phenomena, subject to natural examination. rug Dec 2014 #171

Sorry, but many things which were thought "supernatural" whathehell Dec 2014 #173

Post hoc ergo propter hoc is not a convincing argument. rug Dec 2014 #176

I'm not making a post hoc argument whathehell Dec 2014 #181

And it was Pope Paul VI, who died 36 years ago, who said it muriel_volestrangler Dec 2014 #60

It is part of the doctrine of papal in full of bullity. Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #63

The Bull muriel_volestrangler Dec 2014 #65

Thank you for the clarification. n/t Silent3 Dec 2014 #68

I saw the movie when I was 5. Socal31 Dec 2014 #79

How about making this a fun thread! I will start. cbayer Dec 2014 #92

Okay! bvf Dec 2014 #117

I love that toon Prophet 451 Dec 2014 #187

It's a pretty perfect toon in many ways. cbayer Dec 2014 #189

And as usual, with everything the pope says skepticscott Dec 2014 #101

Looks more the "progressive" pope haters here are more agitated. rug Dec 2014 #104

That's politics, for you. bvf Dec 2014 #116

I fuckin hate these PR Pope articles... MellowDem Dec 2014 #124

Awww.. whathehell Dec 2014 #128

It had everything to do with Blank Frank's New and Improved Image skepticscott Dec 2014 #184

The Pope believes a lot of heinous shit... MellowDem Dec 2014 #199

This is one of those issues where the Church is mostly silent on it, so individual Catholics... Humanist_Activist Dec 2014 #182

I firmly believe I will see my cats again Prophet 451 Dec 2014 #188

It's one thing to wishfully hope for such things... Silent3 Dec 2014 #195

I'm not asking you to believe it Prophet 451 Dec 2014 #196

I never thought you were asking me to believe. That's irrelevant. Silent3 Dec 2014 #197

Post removed Post removed Dec 2014 #200

How is my commenting on what you stated as a belief any more a form of "pushing"... Silent3 Dec 2014 #203

Absence of evidence IS evidence of absence skepticscott Dec 2014 #198

I'll try to make this simple for you. Sareini Dec 2014 #204

Obviously you haven't any understanding skepticscott Dec 2014 #207

+1000 darkangel218 Dec 2014 #202