Religion

DetlefK

(16,670 posts)

23. Are you trying to avoid answering the question?

Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:01 PM

Dec 2014

If you don't know any lines about Satan from the Bible. Fine. But don't charge at ME for asking a question.

I am trying to understand the following: Why is God considered the good guy and Satan is considered the bad guy? Who decided that? And how?

And one satanist poster on a liberal website is not representative of a wider public opinion. Satan this, devil that... 90% of people regard the devil as someone evil. Among Republicans it's 99%, among conservative Christians it's 100%.

Here's the article about the nativity-scene:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/17/michigan-nativity-scene-state-capitol_n_6341800.html
"If we take the nativity-scene down over night, Satan wins!"

Yes, I do have a concept of Satan. I have recently found an interesting theory online and it makes sense to me:
God and Satan are intended as two antagonistic philosophic principles.
God is spiritualism, order, conservation, security.
Satan is materialism, doubt, change, danger.

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What is the baddest, most evil thing Satan/Lucifer/the devil has ever done in the Bible? [View all] DetlefK Dec 2014 OP

Ask a question he couldn't answer himself. rug Dec 2014 #1

Ask a question he couldn't answer himself. AlbertCat Dec 2014 #178

If I were claiming to be equal to God and I wasn't sure if the man in the desert was God, rug Dec 2014 #181

hmmmm Locrian Dec 2014 #2

"That's that other dude" made me laugh out loud . . . brush Dec 2014 #3

May I point out that Lucifer never threatened to strike anybody with a bolt of lightening BlueStreak Dec 2014 #202

No no no . . . something went over somebody's head brush Dec 2014 #203

Yes. I'm simply pointing out that Satan don't roll that way BlueStreak Dec 2014 #205

and don't forget the plagues... n/t 2naSalit Dec 2014 #72

he talked a couple of employees into munching on some produce virtualobserver Dec 2014 #4

LOL The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2014 #66

Lol! CrispyQ Dec 2014 #106

Created the Bush family LiberalArkie Dec 2014 #5

Wow. They ARE a dynasty. DetlefK Dec 2014 #7

Gave humanity the gift of knowledge of good and evil? (nt) LostOne4Ever Dec 2014 #6

From the most common Christian perspective, yep. trotsky Dec 2014 #8

+INFINITY! LostOne4Ever Dec 2014 #9

LOL, agreed! n/t trotsky Dec 2014 #12

Yes! LOL! n/t. bvf Dec 2014 #13

I don't think Yahweh impregnated Mary against her will, but without her consent Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #10

Your ignorance is showing. rug Dec 2014 #53

Your ignorance is showing. AlbertCat Dec 2014 #179

Or who the main character is in MacBeth. rug Dec 2014 #180

Or who the main character is in MacBeth. AlbertCat Dec 2014 #189

No, only for literate people. rug Dec 2014 #193

As there is only one deity allegedly, at least in the Abrahamic religions, Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #11

Do you atually believe Satan claimed to be a god? rug Dec 2014 #57

In practice, Christianity isn't monotheistic cpwm17 Dec 2014 #102

That is a gross misunderstanding of the Trinity. rug Dec 2014 #138

Christians themselves don't consider them gods or separate gods cpwm17 Dec 2014 #140

Read the opening of the gospel of John. okasha Dec 2014 #152

You are really wrong here. rug Dec 2014 #153

Read "The Deathbird" by Harlan Ellison exboyfil Dec 2014 #14

Jahwe conducted the experiment on Job to prove his point to Lucifer. DetlefK Dec 2014 #15

Best thread so far today. Scuba Dec 2014 #16

Created flame bait? cbayer Dec 2014 #17

It's actually an interesting theological question. Which is precisely why you are here to deflect. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #18

it is amazing. I'm sure she will be admonished very soon now for her behavior. Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #37

Nope, I wanted some actual examples of evil things. DetlefK Dec 2014 #19

And I think this is nothing but flame bait. cbayer Dec 2014 #20

Are you trying to avoid answering the question? DetlefK Dec 2014 #23

You seriously are trying to understand this? Seriously? cbayer Dec 2014 #25

Okay, last attempt: DetlefK Dec 2014 #42

In the abrahamic tradition, god is the source of all evil. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #47

And where can I find those 10? DetlefK Dec 2014 #75

The book of job. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #78

Now you are being completely disingenuous. cbayer Dec 2014 #48

You should be able to answer it and he'd accept it, then. Goblinmonger Dec 2014 #55

Every time someone new comes in here with a negative view of religion, she tries to badger them out AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #71

Nice collection of links. trotsky Dec 2014 #77

Bullies will be bullies. cleanhippie Dec 2014 #101

I don't have an answer for him. cbayer Dec 2014 #76

I'm thinking you really never read Job. Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #127

Also, don't let Cbayer bully you out of here. You asked a good question. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #51

According to this theory edhopper Dec 2014 #29

Fallback position #1 for me. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #50

YouGov Poll Says Nearly 60% of Americans Believe the Devil is Real trotsky Dec 2014 #41

"Gallup found that "belief in the devil has increased from 55% in 1990 to 70% in 2004." 2naSalit Dec 2014 #83

You never covered Job? Goblinmonger Dec 2014 #44

Job is actually one of my favorite stories. cbayer Dec 2014 #52

I'm trying to react to this as calmly as possible. Goblinmonger Dec 2014 #59

ooops Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #62

We had a very large thread on this a year ago or so. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #74

Don't hurt yourself. cbayer Dec 2014 #81

"Don't hurt yourself" and again the odd veiled threat shows up. Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #95

While at the same time berating another for "not being civil" cleanhippie Dec 2014 #112

Poe poe poe poe poe poe poe poe poe poe poe poe poe poe poe poe poe poe poe poe poe poe poe poe poe AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #119

ha! cleanhippie Dec 2014 #124

That's essentially the use of it, as found in this forum of late. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #125

Correct, it's a word that is thrown out... trotsky Dec 2014 #126

It is a misuse. "A Poe" is a thing only here. Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #128

You might want to reread phil89 Dec 2014 #104

I might just reread it. cbayer Dec 2014 #111

There's hope unless you're one of job's kids, or servants. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #123

No it is a story of hope and redemption! Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #133

"Don't imagine you can understand or make sense of what it happening to you." Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #134

He tells people edhopper Dec 2014 #21

Yeah, that's the ticket. God is just like Nixon and the devil is just like Dawkins. cbayer Dec 2014 #22

No edhopper Dec 2014 #24

Er, I tend to think their position is that if it was wrong, it wasn't god. cbayer Dec 2014 #26

You are mistaking what I am saying edhopper Dec 2014 #27

Yeah, it's the rather persistent lack of delineation that I keep pointing out. cbayer Dec 2014 #39

I think I was pretty clear from the beginning edhopper Dec 2014 #43

You are right. My agenda is to find commonalities instead of differences cbayer Dec 2014 #58

Fine edhopper Dec 2014 #60

Perfect then. A lot of your "discussions" seem to be with me. cbayer Dec 2014 #86

True edhopper Dec 2014 #88

She's also got several of us on ignore. Narrows the field a bit. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #94

I am indeed very interested in your views on religion. cbayer Dec 2014 #97

"are you related to the OP? You have similar styles." trotsky Dec 2014 #33

I'm sure a host will be along to tell you that isn't cool. Goblinmonger Dec 2014 #45

Shitty, and a wildly unnecessary thing to have in this venue. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #54

What is it with you guys and your taking pretty much everything I say and distorting it. cbayer Dec 2014 #73

"It was, at worst, tongue in cheek" - so at worst you were just Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #93

'*if* I offended anyone, I (non-apology)...' AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #98

WTF? trotsky Dec 2014 #32

Apparantly the whole problem of the evil twin god of christianity Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #38

Clearly a nerve was touched, to use one of her favorite phrases. trotsky Dec 2014 #40

Well, to be fair, that about sums up the entire Christian response to that question cleanhippie Dec 2014 #61

Agreed. trotsky Dec 2014 #69

Well, in a way they did die-- they lost their innocence. TreasonousBastard Dec 2014 #183

WTF - self referential irony much? Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #28

You might want to come in here without guns blazing. Goblinmonger Dec 2014 #49

Saying "created flame bait" is guns blazing? Say, you're not the one who alerted on cbayer Dec 2014 #68

No, that's not something I would alert on because I know it wouldn't succeed. Goblinmonger Dec 2014 #70

You assume that I am too stupid to see this for exactly what it is. cbayer Dec 2014 #84

Call me a liar all you want. Goblinmonger Dec 2014 #90

Another gross distortion. I didn't call you a liar at all, I just noted that the wording was cbayer Dec 2014 #103

well yes you did, but whatever. Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #110

You're right about one thing. There IS too much at stake. trotsky Dec 2014 #113

Endlessly entertaining though.... PassingFair Dec 2014 #192

"Don't nanny me" - seriously? Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #92

This is a great question. I Rainforestgoddess Dec 2014 #30

Very interesting question. nichomachus Dec 2014 #31

he acts up in d_r Dec 2014 #34

oh d_r Dec 2014 #35

"non serviam" Man from Pickens Dec 2014 #36

+1 rug Dec 2014 #63

I'll answer this again edhopper Dec 2014 #46

Thanks. DetlefK Dec 2014 #80

Wow, for an atheist you sure do have some really clear ideas about what cbayer Dec 2014 #87

Some Christians edhopper Dec 2014 #89

Not interested on what is on youtube. cbayer Dec 2014 #107

I was giving the OP edhopper Dec 2014 #114

Nowhere in there did he say all Christians. Goblinmonger Dec 2014 #99

Read it again. I know it's hard to try and read what I say without finding cbayer Dec 2014 #108

And though I explained that edhopper Dec 2014 #115

Yeah, the satan stories have some of that theme - he's hurt, overlooked, scorned and reacts. pinto Dec 2014 #120

He's like a wounded child, something we are all familiar with, I am sure. cbayer Dec 2014 #122

Correction. bvf Dec 2014 #182

Read the book. okasha Dec 2014 #56

So just read the Bible edhopper Dec 2014 #64

As a retired teacher with instincts still intact, okasha Dec 2014 #79

So you think edhopper Dec 2014 #85

He can use a concordance. okasha Dec 2014 #91

Now that is a productive answer edhopper Dec 2014 #116

And as a teacher who's students have read the assignment and ask questions notadmblnd Dec 2014 #121

Open class discussion on the subject. okasha Dec 2014 #154

where questions would be allowed? notadmblnd Dec 2014 #155

How would you have a discussion okasha Dec 2014 #156

So, peers answered your former students questions during class discussions, and your role was? notadmblnd Dec 2014 #157

My students were adults. okasha Dec 2014 #161

Hopefully your responses to your former adult students notadmblnd Dec 2014 #165

"Some of the people here" okasha Dec 2014 #168

This message was self-deleted by its author notadmblnd Dec 2014 #194

What's that thing in the Bible about not judging? notadmblnd Dec 2014 #195

Sorry. I'm neither Christian or Jewish. okasha Dec 2014 #207

This message was self-deleted by its author notadmblnd Dec 2014 #208

Totally. Just did that today in class. Goblinmonger Dec 2014 #148

But there are so many websites with ready-made lists. rug Dec 2014 #65

Why do you even come on a discussion board, then? Goblinmonger Dec 2014 #67

Just want to say I hope our local satanist posts with his views on this. LostOne4Ever Dec 2014 #82

That would be Prophet451 and I would also like to hear what he has to say. cbayer Dec 2014 #129

Yeah, because none of the rest of us could read a fucking book. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #137

There are quite a number of games and anime with plots similar to that LostOne4Ever Dec 2014 #159

I am going to watch the rest of it tonight. cbayer Dec 2014 #162

The Narrow Way/Path, the Tao is the Healing Path. Always do which is conducive to healing. Dont call me Shirley Dec 2014 #174

But what if that was all propaganda? LostOne4Ever Dec 2014 #176

Speaking from personal experience, the healing path (whatever it is called), the path of kindness, Dont call me Shirley Dec 2014 #177

I have to say the massive diversion in this thread is the best part. Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #96

Shit flinging rage monkey Goblinmonger Dec 2014 #105

That's good! I saved it... TreasonousBastard Dec 2014 #184

In the Latin tellings of the tale - Pride pinto Dec 2014 #100

I am learning quite a lot here. cbayer Dec 2014 #117

I love that you're pretending to just now discover the Satan character. cleanhippie Dec 2014 #130

Well, she didn't know who Shaggy was, either. Goblinmonger Dec 2014 #131

Wha? Didn't know who Shaggy was? cleanhippie Dec 2014 #132

Yeah Goblinmonger Dec 2014 #135

That's an interesting, although one-dimensional, idea... TreasonousBastard Dec 2014 #186

Per a song WovenGems Dec 2014 #109

I think this is a great question for this group, and I'm sorry someone tried (is trying) so hard to Heddi Dec 2014 #118

He was 'round when Jesus Christ had his moment of doubt and pain. iscooterliberally Dec 2014 #136

LOL. I give up... pinto Dec 2014 #139

This was a great discussion until Cbayer decided, unilaterally, that it was flamebait Heddi Dec 2014 #142

As usual Heddi, you nailed it again. cleanhippie Dec 2014 #143

I'm sorry, but her actions in this thread are bullshit Heddi Dec 2014 #144

I am going to offer my apologies to you. cbayer Dec 2014 #141

This is great to see from you. I think it will help. trotsky Dec 2014 #145

key word "may" Heddi Dec 2014 #146

" I may have jumped the gun" is a non apology. Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #147

Well speaking for all atheists edhopper Dec 2014 #149

Oh, ed. trotsky Dec 2014 #150

Well played�. cbayer Dec 2014 #151

You were far from apologizing to the OP Heddi Dec 2014 #158

Forget it. Everything's fine. :D DetlefK Dec 2014 #197

Got a call from mash up central. What's the score? pinto Dec 2014 #160

It's a tie and we may have to go into overtime. cbayer Dec 2014 #163

Consensus of the Group's hosts. We're locking this. pinto Dec 2014 #164

And we are back. Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #166

Hahahahahahahahahahaha! cleanhippie Dec 2014 #167

This message was self-deleted by its author darkangel218 Dec 2014 #169

What are you talking about? cleanhippie Dec 2014 #171

Not sure. Were you agreeing with the OP? darkangel218 Dec 2014 #172

I consider satan to be more the lawyer accuser type. hrmjustin Dec 2014 #170

This thread got me to thinking about a Cheers episode goldent Dec 2014 #173

Since this doesn't seem to have been covered, Satan is in the apocryphal books too muriel_volestrangler Dec 2014 #175

Other than falling from the grace of God? Depaysement Dec 2014 #185

Tempted Jesus, I guess, but... TreasonousBastard Dec 2014 #187

Obviously the Pickle Surprise Heddi Dec 2014 #188

I think it is a mistake... Act_of_Reparation Dec 2014 #190

Fine, still we have a mountain of outright evil attributed to Yahweh and Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #191

Jeffrey Burton Russell is a historian of ideas. okasha Dec 2014 #206

Satan's worst sin is not obeying god Prophet 451 Dec 2014 #196

I am glad you weighed on this. I was hoping you would cbayer Dec 2014 #199

Glad to enlighten :) Prophet 451 Dec 2014 #200

Neither God nor Satan do anything evil in the Christian Holy Bible. ZombieHorde Dec 2014 #198

I would suggest he had a hand in the latest interpretations. randr Dec 2014 #201

Here are some sites that have been keeping score BlueStreak Dec 2014 #204