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Why Is Rape at the Origin of Most Religion? [View all]
Stories like the Virgin Birth lack freely given female consent. Why dont they bother us more?
Powerful gods and demi-gods impregnating human womenits a common theme in the history of religion, and its more than a little rapey.
-Zeus comes to Danae in the form of a golden shower, cutting the knot of intact virginity and leaving her pregnant with the Greek hero, Perseus.
-Jupiter forcibly overcomes Europa by transforming himself into a white bull and abducting her. He imprisons her on the Isle of Crete, over time fathering three children.
-Pan copulates with a shepherdess to produce Hermes.
-The legendary founders of Rome, Romulus and Remus are conceived when the Roman god Mars impregnates Rea Silvia, a vestal virgin.
-Helen of Troy, the rare female offspring of a god-human mating, is produced when Zeus takes the form of a swan to get access to Leda.
-In some accounts Alexander the Great and the Emperor Augustus are sowed by gods in the form of serpents, by Phoebus and Jupiter respectively.
-Though the earliest Christians had a competing story, in the Gospel of Luke, the Virgin Mary gets pregnant when the spirit of the Lord comes upon her and the power of the Most High overshadows her.
-The earliest accounts of Zoroasters birth have him born of a human father and mother, much like Jesus,; but in later accounts his mother is pierced by a shaft of divine light.
-The Hindu god Shiva has sex with the human woman Madhura, who has come to worship him while his wife Parvathi is away. Parvathi turns Madhura into a frog, but after 12 years in a well she regains human form and gives birth to Indrajit.
-The Buddhas mother Maya finds herself pregnant after being entered from the side by a god in a dream.
The impregnation process may be a ravishing or seduction or some kind of titillating but nonsexual procreative penetration. The story may come from an Eastern or Western religious tradition, pagan or Christian. But these encounters between beautiful young women and gods have one thing in common. None of them has freely given female consent as a part of the narrative. (Lukes Mary assents after being not asked but told by a powerful supernatural being what is going to happen to her, Behold the bond slave of the Lord: be it done to me . . .)
Who needs consent, freely given? If hes a god, shes got to want it, right? That is how the stories play out.
Whether or not the delectable young thing puts up a protest, whether or not seduction requires deception, whether or not the woman already has a husband or love, whether or not she is physically forced, the basic assumption is that the union between a god and a woman is overwhelming in an orgasmic way, not a bloody, head-bashed-against-the-ground kind of way. And afterwards? Well, what woman wouldnt want to be pregnant with the son or daughter of a god?
--snip--
The miraculous conception stories I listed may have roots in pre-history, in early religions centered on star worship and the agricultural cycle, but they emerged in modern form during the Iron Age. By this time in history, most women were chattel. Like children, livestock and slaves, they were literally possessions of men, and their primary economic and spiritual value lay in their ability to produce purebred offspring of known lineage. The men at the top owned concubines and harams, and virgin females were counted among the spoils of war. (See, for example, the Old Testament story of the virgin Midianites in which Yahweh commands the Israelites to kill the used women but keep the virgin girls for themselves.)
--snip--
This is the context for the miraculous conception stories, and in this context, the consent of a woman is irrelevant. Within a society that treats female sexuality as a male possession, the only consent that can be violated is the consent of a womans owner, the man with the rights to her reproductive capacitytypically her father, fiancé, or husband. Many Christians are surprised when told that nowhere in the Bible, either Old Testament or New, does any writer say that a womans consent is necessary or even desirable before sex.
http://www.alternet.org/belief/why-rape-origin-most-religion?paging=off¤t_page=1#bookmark
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I'm sorry that happened to you. Still doesn't explain how you can justify this.
cleanhippie
Dec 2014
#18
Are you in the habit of rolling around the floor laughing after triggering a rape victim?
rug
Dec 2014
#28
This post is like responding to Harris' latest antics by talking about Bertrand Russell.
rug
Dec 2014
#74
I don't know what language that second-hand account was written in originally, I suspect Greek but
AtheistCrusader
Dec 2014
#110
I can't put my finger on it but I'm sure I've heard "god is a bloody-minded psychopath"
rug
Dec 2014
#90
So, could you address post 77, now that we've come to an agreement on that?
AtheistCrusader
Dec 2014
#96
Well, if you're going on the premise that the scriptures are the actual word of God,
okasha
Dec 2014
#119
Early tradition claims that Luke drew his account from statements by Mary herself.
okasha
Dec 2014
#125
Pretend God is a CEO, and Mary an intern. Re-run the scenario in your head.
AtheistCrusader
Dec 2014
#86
"The angel said ... thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son,"
cleanhippie
Dec 2014
#30
I think that's part of it. Unfortunately, apologists don't want to discuss this issue
cleanhippie
Dec 2014
#3
“Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word.”
cleanhippie
Dec 2014
#31
Give it up. Thinking out loud while looking over your shoulder is hardly discussion.
rug
Dec 2014
#32
Your inability to articulate anything beyond a personal attack is just sad.
cleanhippie
Dec 2014
#33
Especially in the Abrahamic religions, women are directed to be subservient to their men.
cleanhippie
Dec 2014
#7
Summary of thread: "We don't want it to be called rape, so it isn't rape, so stop calling it that!"
Arugula Latte
Dec 2014
#54
Well I'll give you the "feeding on brains" part. There is no evidence that Jesus did that
Warren Stupidity
Dec 2014
#120
Yes your point was not to discuss the message but to attack the messenger.
Warren Stupidity
Dec 2014
#130