Religion

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)

42. Not all of those are rape

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 01:22 PM

Dec 2014

In the cases of Pan, Romulus & Remus, Alexander and Augustus, we're not told whether the mother consented or not. In the case of Zoroaster, it depends on which version of teh story you go with. I suspect that's due to the times and places they appeared in just not caring about female consent (or, at least, not in the way we do today). We can't simply assume lack of consent in these cases, any more than we can assume consent.

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Why Is Rape at the Origin of Most Religion? [View all] cleanhippie Dec 2014 OP

The author's repeating an ignorant statement about the Annunciation. rug Dec 2014 #1

Because we can only read it edhopper Dec 2014 #6

Yeah I don't get that either. hrmjustin Dec 2014 #9

Why not? Do you see it as somehow "legitimate"? cleanhippie Dec 2014 #10

I am a Rape Survivor Sir! hrmjustin Dec 2014 #14

I'm sorry that happened to you. Still doesn't explain how you can justify this. cleanhippie Dec 2014 #18

IBecause i don't believe the version your op states above. hrmjustin Dec 2014 #19

"I believe the official version" cleanhippie Dec 2014 #21

i am upset i think it is better I not speak to you now. hrmjustin Dec 2014 #22

You should be upset, with yourself. cleanhippie Dec 2014 #26

With myself? are you telling me I approve of rape? hrmjustin Dec 2014 #27

I can't say if you do, I would certainly hope you dont. cleanhippie Dec 2014 #29

No penis penetration? EvilAL Dec 2014 #79

The angel said unto her, THOU SHALT. Mariana Dec 2014 #48

Are you in the habit of rolling around the floor laughing after triggering a rape victim? rug Dec 2014 #28

If you read the passage there was no "forcible impregnation". rug Dec 2014 #16

Do you? Cartoonist Dec 2014 #38

Clearly better than you. rug Dec 2014 #44

We were only taught the official version. Cartoonist Dec 2014 #46

I do it all the time. No wonder people get upset. rug Dec 2014 #57

No, he doesn't. okasha Dec 2014 #50

Interesting to know. rug Dec 2014 #58

So, in the language of the Bible, she did consent. Jim__ Dec 2014 #68

You're welcome. okasha Dec 2014 #70

Yeah, I do. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #62

No, you don't. rug Dec 2014 #65

I don't know what to tell you. I've just got this book to go by. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #73

This post is like responding to Harris' latest antics by talking about Bertrand Russell. rug Dec 2014 #74

Except, i called out the problem; ambiguous consent. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #75

You misstated the passage at hand. rug Dec 2014 #76

Not in the slightest. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #77

I take it you're suggesting she acquiesced. rug Dec 2014 #97

I agree, not like Lewinsky at all. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #100

You're really missing what's going on here. rug Dec 2014 #106

Well, or else is an implicit threat. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #108

I think the Atlantic essay hits the nail on the head in its last sentence: rug Dec 2014 #109

I don't know what language that second-hand account was written in originally, I suspect Greek but AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #110

My points not worthy of a response? AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #85

No. rug Dec 2014 #88

Pray tell the source then? AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #89

I can't put my finger on it but I'm sure I've heard "god is a bloody-minded psychopath" rug Dec 2014 #90

That is mine, I've stated it several times. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #93

Ok, I'll give you full credit for that part then. rug Dec 2014 #94

So, could you address post 77, now that we've come to an agreement on that? AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #96

Done. rug Dec 2014 #98

David's "indiscretions" included the murder of Uriah to protect Bathsheba. okasha Dec 2014 #111

Do you approve of a god that would do such a thing? AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #113

Did you miss my last sentence? okasha Dec 2014 #114

That sentence disapproved of what appeared to be an abstract concept. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #117

Well, if you're going on the premise that the scriptures are the actual word of God, okasha Dec 2014 #119

Well, the various accounts of Mary's exchange are AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #123

Early tradition claims that Luke drew his account from statements by Mary herself. okasha Dec 2014 #125

There was also no sex. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2014 #67

Good point. rug Dec 2014 #69

Technically, she had no choice. EvilAL Dec 2014 #80

Pay attention. rug Dec 2014 #81

I see it both ways here EvilAL Dec 2014 #82

This is not the language of rape. rug Dec 2014 #83

I'm sure she felt special about it EvilAL Dec 2014 #84

Pretend God is a CEO, and Mary an intern. Re-run the scenario in your head. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #86

That's a perfect analogy. rug Dec 2014 #87

I'm glad you agree on the analogy. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #91

I couldn't agree more. rug Dec 2014 #92

Hmm. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #95

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no! rug Dec 2014 #99

This whole business just went from creepy to outright disgusting Lordquinton Dec 2014 #129

Could you understand edhopper Dec 2014 #13

I think it is a stretch. hrmjustin Dec 2014 #15

Was Mary asked if she wanted to conceive Jesus? edhopper Dec 2014 #17

In my bible it says you will concieve. hrmjustin Dec 2014 #23

"The angel said ... thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son," cleanhippie Dec 2014 #30

And there's also Luke 1:46-55, the Magnificat, The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2014 #53

Enthusiastc, if you ask me. okasha Dec 2014 #55

I interpret that as telling, not asking. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #101

I am sorry but I am not discussing this again. hrmjustin Dec 2014 #102

Did you ask yourself *why* it upset you? AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #103

I am not discussing this. hrmjustin Dec 2014 #104

Ok. I would ask one thing though. AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #105

Reading Luke, I have to conclude that she was told, not asked. cleanhippie Dec 2014 #24

It's more like a rape fantasy Major Nikon Dec 2014 #41

Very good question... haikugal Dec 2014 #2

I think that's part of it. Unfortunately, apologists don't want to discuss this issue cleanhippie Dec 2014 #3

Yes, I noticed that... haikugal Dec 2014 #4

Stating facts is not waving anything away. rug Dec 2014 #8

When was Mary asked if she wanted to conceive? edhopper Dec 2014 #20

This is the full passage: rug Dec 2014 #25

“Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word.” cleanhippie Dec 2014 #31

Give it up. Thinking out loud while looking over your shoulder is hardly discussion. rug Dec 2014 #32

Your inability to articulate anything beyond a personal attack is just sad. cleanhippie Dec 2014 #33

Ah, now what is that you just said? Could it be a personal attack? rug Dec 2014 #34

Let me know when you are ready to discuss the topic at hand. cleanhippie Dec 2014 #36

I haven't heard any from you. rug Dec 2014 #45

I'd call that a willful misreading. okasha Dec 2014 #52

Rape wasn't a crime at the time Major Nikon Dec 2014 #47

I can't see post number 1. Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #56

Since you can't see it, It looks like you're relying on your imagination, rug Dec 2014 #60

It's this edhopper Dec 2014 #66

seems to me edhopper Dec 2014 #5

Especially in the Abrahamic religions, women are directed to be subservient to their men. cleanhippie Dec 2014 #7

That is true edhopper Dec 2014 #12

I had not considered this before. Feral Child Dec 2014 #11

I think we can all agree on one thing. Cartoonist Dec 2014 #35

And BOOM goes the dynamite! cleanhippie Dec 2014 #37

Weellllll, I have to take issue with the word "history." nt truebluegreen Dec 2014 #39

But he gave "consent" so it's all good Major Nikon Dec 2014 #49

Some articles are too far-fetched even for The Onion. goldent Dec 2014 #40

Not all of those are rape Prophet 451 Dec 2014 #42

The article's author is wrong about tbe Buddha's mother, too. okasha Dec 2014 #64

it certainly is a theme in all the patriarchal religions. niyad Dec 2014 #43

Hallelujah, we have a winner AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #63

Simplest answer: It isn't. okasha Dec 2014 #51

Summary of thread: "We don't want it to be called rape, so it isn't rape, so stop calling it that!" Arugula Latte Dec 2014 #54

Summary of thread: Circulating internet bullshit meets existing scholarship. rug Dec 2014 #71

Pretty much. cleanhippie Dec 2014 #78

Yup, you got it. n/t trotsky Dec 2014 #107

Because God was created by man to control woman. -nt CrispyQ Dec 2014 #59

It is about control of women. Jappleseed Dec 2014 #61

Cleanhippie's War on Christmas continues! kwassa Dec 2014 #72

And then there's the zombie crap at Easter. okasha Dec 2014 #112

And why not? Jesus Christ is a Zombie God. Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #116

Not quite, Warren. okasha Dec 2014 #118

Well I'll give you the "feeding on brains" part. There is no evidence that Jesus did that Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #120

Looks like you haven't the slightest idea what transfiguration is. rug Dec 2014 #127

Read Harry Potter Alittleliberal Dec 2014 #126

There is a forum where never is heard a disparaging word Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #115

That's not the point of my comment. But, you know this. kwassa Dec 2014 #128

Yes your point was not to discuss the message but to attack the messenger. Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #130

The message is debunked every Christmas and Easter when the messenger posts it again. kwassa Dec 2014 #131

Pretty sure rape predates religion unrepentant progress Dec 2014 #121

I don't think the claim is that religion causes rape. Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #122

Agreed. okasha Dec 2014 #124