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Religion

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eomer

(3,845 posts)
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 07:41 PM Jan 2015

(Poll) On Neil deGrasse Tyson's use of "agnostic" versus his views on the existence of God. [View all]

Neil deGrasse Tyson (NDT): "I remain unconvinced by any claims anyone has ever made about the existence or the power of a divine force operating in the universe."


NDT prefers no label at all but if he has to pick one then he says that "agnostic" will give you the closest idea of his conduct and he prefers that label over "atheist". But I believe that many people will get the wrong idea about his views on the existence of God from "agnostic". I believe that most self-described atheists would say that his words above are an accurate statement of their views on existence. That's the case for me. And many people, in my opinion, take "agnostic" to mean a position more open than that to the existence.

So how about you? Especially if you self-identify as either atheist or agnostic, do NDT's above words accurately represent your views?

15 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
I self-identify as "atheist" and NDT's words above are an accurate statement of my own views on existence.
10 (67%)
I self-identify as "agnostic" and NDT's words above are an accurate statement of my own views on existence.
5 (33%)
I self-identify as "atheist" and NDT's words above are NOT an accurate statement of my own views on existence.
0 (0%)
I self-identify as "agnostic" and NDT's words above are NOT an accurate statement of my own views on existence.
0 (0%)
I don't self identify as "atheist" or "agnostic" and I consider NDT's words above to be those of an atheist.
0 (0%)
I don't self identify as "atheist" or "agnostic" and I consider NDT's words above to be those of an agnostic.
0 (0%)
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Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll
154 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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for approximately the 1,000,000,000th time here: Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #1
Exactly Ohio Dem Jan 2015 #3
I'm sympathetic to your quest, but it's a bit quixotic and not entirely true. eomer Jan 2015 #9
It's not just that Alittleliberal Jan 2015 #26
Right, I understand those definitions but am saying that usage does not universally conform to them. eomer Jan 2015 #28
Usage certainly is far from universally conforming to them... *however* gcomeau Feb 2015 #142
re: belief is a binary solution set eomer Feb 2015 #143
You are talking about levels of confidence *in* beliefs. gcomeau Feb 2015 #144
Exactly what are the criteria for saying you have it? eomer Feb 2015 #146
I'm not sure what you're asking? gcomeau Feb 2015 #147
Right, but the question was about a person who assesses the probability as something between 0 and 1 eomer Feb 2015 #148
Well, gcomeau Feb 2015 #149
If it's up to me then I'll answer in degrees of belief. eomer Feb 2015 #150
That wasn't answering, that was avoiding answering. gcomeau Feb 2015 #151
Posting again to add something about these words, their meaning, and dictionaries. eomer Jan 2015 #27
NDT says he 'remains unconvinced.' I am positive there could be no evidence. Agnostic is probably a Panich52 Feb 2015 #131
Of course... gcomeau Feb 2015 #145
Think there's still semantics problem. Or connotation. Panich52 Feb 2015 #152
The term as originally (and correctly) formulated by Huxley gcomeau Feb 2015 #153
My connotations came long before there was an internet. But I'm a bit ashamed I'd neglected Huxley Panich52 Feb 2015 #154
The only thing that is required is that people educate themselves. LiberalAndProud Feb 2015 #76
The problem I am having with this is that you have pretty much provided cbayer Jan 2015 #2
Fair point, but that's just my own view I offered in hopes that others would respond with theirs. eomer Jan 2015 #12
Do you have any evidence for any of your assertions, and stop inserting "scientific" when the proper Humanist_Activist Jan 2015 #21
I didn't make them as assertions - I expressed them as just what I think. eomer Jan 2015 #29
that actually is more accurate qazplm Feb 2015 #78
I would replace the word "know" with believe. cbayer Feb 2015 #80
The Universe is a long running comedy / reality show for the God(s) lapfog_1 Jan 2015 #4
I dislike labels IphengeniaBlumgarten Jan 2015 #5
Yes, NDT's rationale is something like that. eomer Jan 2015 #14
Thanks for that edhopper Feb 2015 #109
What you hear when whathehell Feb 2015 #103
It's not your problem. okasha Jan 2015 #6
Is there a problem? eomer Jan 2015 #17
Apparently there is. okasha Jan 2015 #18
If he wanted it to be a secret he wouldn't have spoken on a radio blog. eomer Jan 2015 #19
Oh, you mean like telling some Muslims skepticscott Feb 2015 #133
Humm. Not quite sure how to vote on this... TDale313 Jan 2015 #7
Thanks, that's really the point I was trying to get at, and you put it well. eomer Jan 2015 #23
This is my position, also. stone space Feb 2015 #95
Why is it anyone else's business which label he chooses to identify himself? procon Jan 2015 #8
I haven't attributed anything to him, I've only quoted him. eomer Jan 2015 #11
Look at your poll. procon Jan 2015 #15
True, no one needs to. It's their choice and I assume most will have already chosen. eomer Jan 2015 #16
I think Yoda said it best: LostOne4Ever Jan 2015 #10
Correct, you may be. eomer Jan 2015 #13
One would think by now Pascal's Wager would... TreasonousBastard Jan 2015 #20
Pascal's wager assumes that Pascal knows which of the many gods are the ones to worship Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #24
Like many in science, NDT tends not to deal mmonk Jan 2015 #22
The main point I was trying to get at (with thanks to TDale313). eomer Jan 2015 #25
Yeah, I think that's the basic issue. trotsky Jan 2015 #30
Yes, exactly. NDT also laments the fact that there are not more words to express the nuances. eomer Jan 2015 #32
I think a huge part of it is that he more uses the language of science and... Humanist_Activist Jan 2015 #70
Which is why, for the 1,000,000,0001th time: atheist and agnostic are not mutally exclusive. Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #31
If those are the universally-accepted definitions then the dictionaries should reflect that. eomer Jan 2015 #33
I'm just trying to help you out with your obvious confusion. Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #34
Seems like you need to help Webster and Oxford with theirs as well. eomer Jan 2015 #35
I have a huge problem with the second definition for agnostic in both dictionaries... Humanist_Activist Jan 2015 #69
Seriously? stone space Feb 2015 #93
Belief is on a continuum? You are talking about mathematical objects, we are talking about objects.. Humanist_Activist Feb 2015 #137
Mathematical objects are not objects? (nt) stone space Feb 2015 #140
Not in a tangible sense, and many mathematical objects can't exist in our space-time... Humanist_Activist Feb 2015 #141
This also comes back to christians defining non-belief Lordquinton Feb 2015 #72
Both Christians and atheists sometimes try to define belief for agnostics. (nt) stone space Feb 2015 #94
You continue with the working premise that people who call themselves cbayer Jan 2015 #36
I said I think it's fairly prevalent, not that it's the case for everyone. eomer Jan 2015 #44
I have also previously made the case for a new nomenclature. cbayer Jan 2015 #46
Yes, agree, with some minor (friendly) improvements. eomer Jan 2015 #47
From my reading it seemed clear that he was doing this reluctantly. cbayer Jan 2015 #49
Oh, right. eomer Jan 2015 #62
The man is not stupid and I think his relatively neutral position cbayer Jan 2015 #64
As you can clearly see from the above posts rock Jan 2015 #37
I really like your example and have not seen it before. cbayer Jan 2015 #38
I don't agree. Goblinmonger Jan 2015 #39
That is good edhopper Jan 2015 #40
Apatheist is a term I like and sometimes use cbayer Jan 2015 #41
Though that might be edhopper Jan 2015 #42
Wouldn't that mean that you didn't care whether you knew? cbayer Jan 2015 #43
That's an interesting position you take, if I understand it. eomer Jan 2015 #45
Sure, though you may not like the answer rock Jan 2015 #48
Actually I do like that answer but I tend to say it a bit differently. eomer Jan 2015 #66
I like you're approach rock Jan 2015 #68
"Disbelieve" literally means "does not believe" they are the same thing. (nt) LostOne4Ever Jan 2015 #50
and neither is the same as "believe in the absence of" whatthehey Jan 2015 #52
Completely agree (nt) LostOne4Ever Jan 2015 #55
There are those that disagree with you. I think he makes a valid point. cbayer Jan 2015 #53
I think the problem is that the English language LostOne4Ever Jan 2015 #54
Really good point. We need a new nomenclature badly. cbayer Jan 2015 #56
I avoid the word belief edhopper Jan 2015 #58
I like that. I also like Tyson's phrase "I remain unconvinced" cbayer Jan 2015 #59
Belief just has too many uses edhopper Jan 2015 #60
Agree, I believe in lots of things. cbayer Jan 2015 #61
As well as your values edhopper Jan 2015 #65
Many people make this mistake rock Jan 2015 #57
Upon what source do you base this premise? LostOne4Ever Jan 2015 #63
Hey LostOne4Ever: You're not wrong rock Jan 2015 #67
Not only do I believe it, I can prove it. stone space Feb 2015 #74
the issue here is between technical precision and conveying meaning to a non-technical audience whatthehey Jan 2015 #51
If the guy calls himself an agnostic, then... stone space Feb 2015 #71
NDT and Richard Dawkins share this belief Lordquinton Feb 2015 #73
Really? Did he tell you all this, because he has never said anything cbayer Feb 2015 #75
Here it is, in his own words Lordquinton Feb 2015 #96
Say what? That's Dawkins, right? cbayer Feb 2015 #100
yea, Dawkins showing his belief is at the same level as Tyson Lordquinton Feb 2015 #138
Not to me it's not the same thing at all. cbayer Feb 2015 #139
Here's something else: edhopper Feb 2015 #77
I just had a rather lengthy discussion about this. cbayer Feb 2015 #79
As a shorthand edhopper Feb 2015 #81
NDT has used the elegant phrase "I remain unconvinced". cbayer Feb 2015 #82
I do agree he clearly refuses to take a position edhopper Feb 2015 #85
Disagree. He takes a position. He says he is agnostic. cbayer Feb 2015 #87
He has also stated he does not claim to be an atheist edhopper Feb 2015 #89
I've not seen him say that. cbayer Feb 2015 #98
Not seen him say what? edhopper Feb 2015 #102
I have never seen him say that he doesn't take the label atheist because cbayer Feb 2015 #104
here edhopper Feb 2015 #105
Great statement, but he isn't speaking specifically about anything. cbayer Feb 2015 #106
No edhopper Feb 2015 #107
I have heard it and I know he gave this response to a question specifically cbayer Feb 2015 #108
Listening to him edhopper Feb 2015 #111
I remain unconvinced as well, and I have a high degree of skepticism. cbayer Feb 2015 #112
Not just evidence driven edhopper Feb 2015 #113
I'm not convinced that non-material things play no role in his life. cbayer Feb 2015 #114
The materialst was a joke edhopper Feb 2015 #115
Yeah, I just looked at some of the definitions of materialism and materialist, cbayer Feb 2015 #116
You sexist! edhopper Feb 2015 #117
Just add it to the list. cbayer Feb 2015 #118
There are intellectual women i find very sexy edhopper Feb 2015 #119
Yes. It is definitely safer for a straight women to express her attraction cbayer Feb 2015 #120
Rock Star level scientist edhopper Feb 2015 #121
You can come up with new terminology and shortly it will be just as useless Fumesucker Feb 2015 #83
I resent and object to the idea that people call themselves agnostic because cbayer Feb 2015 #88
Look at the poll in the OP Fumesucker Feb 2015 #90
That poll is meaningless. It's just that some people want him to be something cbayer Feb 2015 #99
Is it your contention that everyone who picked that option in the poll was lying? Fumesucker Feb 2015 #122
Oh, no. I think that everyone that answered that poll was telling the truth. cbayer Feb 2015 #124
You voted in the poll Fumesucker Feb 2015 #125
Clearly I am in a considerably smaller group. cbayer Feb 2015 #126
I'm comfortable with Tyson calling himself anything he wants Fumesucker Feb 2015 #127
I think people should be able to call themselves what they want as well. cbayer Feb 2015 #128
That certainly seems to elevate theism as the default condition of humans Fumesucker Feb 2015 #129
No it doesn't. All it says is that some people embrace belief and some people reject it. cbayer Feb 2015 #130
Turn it around the other way and see if that changes your feelings on it.. Fumesucker Feb 2015 #132
Sure, that works as well. It's clumsy and has a confusing double negative, cbayer Feb 2015 #134
Sometime I feel like atheism is more of a movement than the non-belief of a higher being. RandySF Feb 2015 #84
There are organized atheist yes edhopper Feb 2015 #86
It's largely defensive and reactionary in the sense it's reacting to religious extremism. Fumesucker Feb 2015 #91
For some, I think it is a critical part of their identity. cbayer Feb 2015 #110
Okay, all together now: LostOne4Ever Feb 2015 #92
Lol. Sometimes it's good to wake the dead. cbayer Feb 2015 #101
He can't be honest... MellowDem Feb 2015 #97
It is sad that by doing this, both NDT and certain people on DU... trotsky Feb 2015 #123
Yes, and it's ironic that some posters here castigate Richard Dawkins skepticscott Feb 2015 #136
Tyson is an atheist, whether anyone likes it or not. skepticscott Feb 2015 #135
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