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NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
44. "Charbonnier had famously shrugged off threats, saying: 'I'd rather die standing than live kneeling"
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 04:13 PM
Jan 2015

It's sort of a battle cry among martyrs.

Editor Stephane Charbonnier had famously shrugged off threats, saying: 'I'd rather die standing than live kneeling'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2900259/Gunmen-kill-11-Charlie-Hebdo-attack.html#ixzz3OGKwIn2D
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France lost five of its most prominent political cartoonists yesterday. For decades, they had mocked the powerful, the sacred, the dictators, and all those who believed themselves above criticism. These cartoonists felt there was no better way to fight fundamentalism than through derision and laughter. The late Charb, Charlie Hebdo's editor-in-chief, was killed, evoking the words of Spanish republican icon Dolores Ibarruri, who was known to boast: "I'd rather die standing than live kneeling."

It is this very impertinence, this freedom to rebel against ideologies, structures and hierarchies through art and literature, that has been targeted. France is known for its triad "liberty, equality, brotherhood" engraved at the helm of every school, on all official buildings. This motto attributed to French theologian and writer Francois Fenelon at the end of the 17th century was popularised during the French Revolution, when popular unrest toppled religious and authoritative powers. This philosophy was central to Charlie Hebdo's editorial line and promoted by Charb, known for his firm leftist stands, and for advocating for more justice and wealth redistribution.

Yet, the likely beneficiaries of this heinous act will be the very opponents of this libertarian and humanist stance. A few hours after the events, extreme right leader Marine Le Pen immediately seized the opportunity to unleash her short-sighted Islamophobic attacks. While spontaneous gatherings and demonstrations took place across the country to show the country's grief and support for the victims, Le Pen dissuaded her supporters from participating. She later set conditions for taking part in the Republican march organised for next Sunday.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2015/01/defining-moment-french-right-20151812591698588.html


"Yet, the likely beneficiaries of this heinous act will be the very opponents of this libertarian and humanist stance. "

I'm not alone in questioning the efficacy of this approach to fighting fundamentalism...

~~~

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And some of the more Offensive Homophobic cartoons featured at Gawker, here: NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #1
I don't like the 'toons and I don't often agree with their message, but cbayer Jan 2015 #2
I think it provides great background, yes. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #3
It's really complicated and perhaps hard to know what is right or wrong here. cbayer Jan 2015 #4
It's "hard to know what is right or wrong here"?? trotsky Jan 2015 #5
I am going to step up and defend cbayer--I don't think anyone is supporting MURDER. MADem Jan 2015 #27
But it's 'expected' and 'should have been anticipated' by the victims, according to some parties AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #35
You don't understand the culture behind the publication and it's history. AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #6
Thank you. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #7
You realize some of them were created in direct response to their offices being firebombed, right? AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #8
Also, you are making an uninformed snap judgment about a magazine making deadly serious satire about AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #9
Admittedly, I am. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #11
Why is it reasonable to expect "that violent reactions might occur"? trotsky Jan 2015 #12
I see the world as a schoolyard, people really behave like children, they are children, in fact. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #14
Why weren't the death threats considered the initial crime? trotsky Jan 2015 #15
I don't know, they seem like the original crime to me. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #18
Carelessness? trotsky Jan 2015 #20
I'm going for a walk. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #23
Great idea. trotsky Jan 2015 #25
It does blame the victim, and it does support 'might makes right'. AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #22
... NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #24
You've already admitted you are missing cultural and linguistic context for the images/commentary in AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #26
I think what they've done might well do more harm than good. I'm not the only one who thinks so. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #49
Marine Le Pen is the leader of the National Front. The one I just mentioned. AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #57
Yes, by all means this is the fault of the people that drew and published the cartoons. Goblinmonger Jan 2015 #13
Which is not at all what I wrote. How you all go there is beyond me. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #21
He does that a lot. rug Jan 2015 #28
I genuinely don't understand why you don't understand the connection. AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #31
I've seen this argument before. AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #17
Agreed. n/t prayin4rain Jan 2015 #29
"It was careless, at the very least, to carry on in the way they did" - that is classic victim Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #43
Free speech is great stuff and should never be viewed as in 'is it productive or not'. Rex Jan 2015 #48
As with the "yelling 'Fire' in a theater" admonition... NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #54
"...freedom of expression should be tempered with the risk to innocents." Rex Jan 2015 #58
I appreciate your civility and respect. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #59
I think over the years I know enough about the regulars here to know Rex Jan 2015 #60
it's not ludicrious, it's simple word substitution AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #63
We should apply that to our gun laws as well Lordquinton Jan 2015 #64
Indeed. There's plenty of room for improvement there. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #65
Did people deserve to die because of "hateful cartoons"? trotsky Jan 2015 #10
His stance on this appears eerily similar to the "Did you see how she was dressed? She should've cleanhippie Jan 2015 #16
Yes, it is exactly the same line of thought. trotsky Jan 2015 #19
Funny how in *your brain* it went there. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #30
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that. cleanhippie Jan 2015 #32
I sleep like a little baby at night. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #36
I'm sure you do, skp, I'm sure you do. cleanhippie Jan 2015 #37
I love living by the ocean as well. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #38
Hi hrmjustin! NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #40
You are always in my prayers. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #41
"They are giving you a hard time but don't let it get you down." AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #42
This message was self-deleted by its author cleanhippie Jan 2015 #53
No, you should be. AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #34
Did you really say Curmudgeoness Jan 2015 #39
"Charbonnier had famously shrugged off threats, saying: 'I'd rather die standing than live kneeling" NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #44
"Give me liberty or give me death." Curmudgeoness Jan 2015 #47
Have you read any quotes from him? cbayer Jan 2015 #46
I have been informed of that quote Curmudgeoness Jan 2015 #52
I agree that he was not looking to die. People in his position are cbayer Jan 2015 #56
The quote is attibuted to Spanish republican icon Dolores Ibarruri, 3 Sept., 1936: NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #61
I did not know that. I thought it was original to him, but I like it either way. cbayer Jan 2015 #62
Thanks for sharing this article Rainforestgoddess Jan 2015 #33
You are welcome. Of all that I read, this gave me the best overview cbayer Jan 2015 #50
It's part of the French tradition of anti-Clericalism too. oneview Jan 2015 #45
That is a good point. It's not the first time and it will likely not be cbayer Jan 2015 #51
Religions, like all other ideas, deserve criticism, satire, and, yes, our fearless disrespect. PassingFair Jan 2015 #55
The claim that pro gay artists were homophobic to defend religions which are homophobic Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #66
Thank you for this, I do not appreciate them but understand them more. Thanks uppityperson Jan 2015 #67
You are welcome. I found it a good overview on the magazine. cbayer Jan 2015 #68
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