Religion

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)

59. I appreciate your civility and respect.

Thu Jan 8, 2015, 05:48 PM

Jan 2015

I do.

Some seem to think I'm blaming the victims here, going so far as to say that it reminds them of blaming rape victims for dressing a certain way.

I don't respond, that's ludicrous.

The publishers and cartoonists and editors in this case were trying, at least, to do a public service in challenging fundamentalism and bigotry with sharp satire.

They chose to do it in ways I would not have, in ways I think might have done more harm than good.

They clearly understood the risks, and apparently accepted them and that's their choice.

I disagree with that choice largely because of the risk to others, but also because I don't think it's an effective strategy and could create more enemies.

Again, thank you for the added note.

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Highlight:

Charlie Hebdo and its biting satire, explained in 9 of its most iconic covers [View all] cbayer Jan 2015 OP

And some of the more Offensive Homophobic cartoons featured at Gawker, here: NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #1

I don't like the 'toons and I don't often agree with their message, but cbayer Jan 2015 #2

I think it provides great background, yes. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #3

It's really complicated and perhaps hard to know what is right or wrong here. cbayer Jan 2015 #4

It's "hard to know what is right or wrong here"?? trotsky Jan 2015 #5

I am going to step up and defend cbayer--I don't think anyone is supporting MURDER. MADem Jan 2015 #27

But it's 'expected' and 'should have been anticipated' by the victims, according to some parties AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #35

You don't understand the culture behind the publication and it's history. AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #6

Thank you. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #7

You realize some of them were created in direct response to their offices being firebombed, right? AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #8

Also, you are making an uninformed snap judgment about a magazine making deadly serious satire about AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #9

Admittedly, I am. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #11

Why is it reasonable to expect "that violent reactions might occur"? trotsky Jan 2015 #12

I see the world as a schoolyard, people really behave like children, they are children, in fact. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #14

Why weren't the death threats considered the initial crime? trotsky Jan 2015 #15

I don't know, they seem like the original crime to me. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #18

Carelessness? trotsky Jan 2015 #20

I'm going for a walk. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #23

Great idea. trotsky Jan 2015 #25

It does blame the victim, and it does support 'might makes right'. AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #22

... NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #24

You've already admitted you are missing cultural and linguistic context for the images/commentary in AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #26

I think what they've done might well do more harm than good. I'm not the only one who thinks so. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #49

Marine Le Pen is the leader of the National Front. The one I just mentioned. AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #57

Yes, by all means this is the fault of the people that drew and published the cartoons. Goblinmonger Jan 2015 #13

Which is not at all what I wrote. How you all go there is beyond me. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #21

He does that a lot. rug Jan 2015 #28

I genuinely don't understand why you don't understand the connection. AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #31

I've seen this argument before. AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #17

Agreed. n/t prayin4rain Jan 2015 #29

"It was careless, at the very least, to carry on in the way they did" - that is classic victim Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #43

Free speech is great stuff and should never be viewed as in 'is it productive or not'. Rex Jan 2015 #48

As with the "yelling 'Fire' in a theater" admonition... NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #54

"...freedom of expression should be tempered with the risk to innocents." Rex Jan 2015 #58

I appreciate your civility and respect. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #59

I think over the years I know enough about the regulars here to know Rex Jan 2015 #60

it's not ludicrious, it's simple word substitution AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #63

We should apply that to our gun laws as well Lordquinton Jan 2015 #64

Indeed. There's plenty of room for improvement there. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #65

Did people deserve to die because of "hateful cartoons"? trotsky Jan 2015 #10

His stance on this appears eerily similar to the "Did you see how she was dressed? She should've cleanhippie Jan 2015 #16

Yes, it is exactly the same line of thought. trotsky Jan 2015 #19

Funny how in *your brain* it went there. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #30

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that. cleanhippie Jan 2015 #32

I sleep like a little baby at night. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #36

I'm sure you do, skp, I'm sure you do. cleanhippie Jan 2015 #37

I love living by the ocean as well. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #38

Hi hrmjustin! NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #40

You are always in my prayers. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #41

"They are giving you a hard time but don't let it get you down." AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #42

This message was self-deleted by its author cleanhippie Jan 2015 #53

No, you should be. AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #34

Did you really say Curmudgeoness Jan 2015 #39

"Charbonnier had famously shrugged off threats, saying: 'I'd rather die standing than live kneeling" NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #44

"Give me liberty or give me death." Curmudgeoness Jan 2015 #47

Have you read any quotes from him? cbayer Jan 2015 #46

I have been informed of that quote Curmudgeoness Jan 2015 #52

I agree that he was not looking to die. People in his position are cbayer Jan 2015 #56

The quote is attibuted to Spanish republican icon Dolores Ibarruri, 3 Sept., 1936: NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #61

I did not know that. I thought it was original to him, but I like it either way. cbayer Jan 2015 #62

Thanks for sharing this article Rainforestgoddess Jan 2015 #33

You are welcome. Of all that I read, this gave me the best overview cbayer Jan 2015 #50

It's part of the French tradition of anti-Clericalism too. oneview Jan 2015 #45

That is a good point. It's not the first time and it will likely not be cbayer Jan 2015 #51

Religions, like all other ideas, deserve criticism, satire, and, yes, our fearless disrespect. PassingFair Jan 2015 #55

The claim that pro gay artists were homophobic to defend religions which are homophobic Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #66

Thank you for this, I do not appreciate them but understand them more. Thanks uppityperson Jan 2015 #67

You are welcome. I found it a good overview on the magazine. cbayer Jan 2015 #68