Religion

cbayer

(146,218 posts)

1. My own conscience is the final arbiter.

Tue Mar 3, 2015, 05:05 PM

Mar 2015

I don't always choose the most moral or good route, but my level of guilt clearly sends the message that I have strayed from what I know to be right.

My major influences were clearly my parents, as I think is probably true for most people. But there has always been change and flux in response to new information and experiences.

How about you?

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Who or what is the final arbiter of morality and good? [View all] Leontius Mar 2015 OP

My own conscience is the final arbiter. cbayer Mar 2015 #1

VERY good answer rock Mar 2015 #85

Thanks, rock! You are absolutely right - it is those without cbayer Mar 2015 #93

Jeffrey Lebowski Act_of_Reparation Mar 2015 #2

Loaded question. trotsky Mar 2015 #3

the 87th uber-god. nt. Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #4

I was born with this way. I have always considered myself a good person. I have always wanted Dont call me Shirley Mar 2015 #5

Does it physically hurt others or block their rights on point Mar 2015 #6

^^ Well said Hestia Mar 2015 #7

If only it were that simple. trotsky Mar 2015 #8

Individual has sovereignty over their own body. Anti choicer nixed. Next on point Mar 2015 #12

Anti-choicer believes fetus is an individual. Try again. n/t trotsky Mar 2015 #13

Their beliefs are irrelevant. They don't have ANY sovereignty over a woman's body on point Mar 2015 #17

Oh, I see. trotsky Mar 2015 #20

Rights are coupled to personhood. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #38

Oh neither do I. trotsky Mar 2015 #39

In a case like that, you balance the rights of bodily autonomy for the living, breathing... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #66

I agree, but of course that's not how they see the equation at all. trotsky Mar 2015 #70

There are a whole set of "trolley car dilemma" ethics puzzles Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #11

It's disappointing that even among self-professed liberals... trotsky Mar 2015 #15

It's simpler. okasha Mar 2015 #18

Oh Hai Okasha! Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #19

LOl okasha Mar 2015 #25

"Reality based"? You're funny. mr blur Mar 2015 #26

A little humor is a good thing. okasha Mar 2015 #27

Where did the other person come from? trotsky Mar 2015 #21

The trolley test is a bifurcation mechanism. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #36

I would refrain from intervening. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #30

Suppose it is 1000 to 1 Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #32

There is no ratio at which I would intervene. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #34

What if it was all of humanity? trotsky Mar 2015 #37

I would die with my principles intact. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #40

Well let's say the folks on the space station could remain on it long enough... trotsky Mar 2015 #41

No, except AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #42

Yeah I can say I'd have no problem diverting the asteroid. trotsky Mar 2015 #46

Yeah, I'm ok with informed consent, self-sacrifice, that's cool. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #47

What if Hitler is on the space station? trotsky Mar 2015 #49

No, if you want to get hitler, you need that asteroid to hit, because he's underground. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #50

I offer a counter to that saying Kelvin Mace Mar 2015 #82

"I would die with my principles intact." LTX Mar 2015 #110

Ah, another 'murder' contestant. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #111

As duly noted below, culpability can affix to inaction as well as action. LTX Mar 2015 #112

I posted this downthread but, here's an interesting lecture/Q-A session, also from Harvard on this. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #45

in the real world you just grab the ankles Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #48

My choice would be to let the Kelvin Mace Mar 2015 #83

The audience response was consistent across the trolley and medical scenarios. Jim__ Mar 2015 #59

No it isn't. The Trolley dilemma is precisely the same whether it's the driver or a person on the AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #60

From a deontological point of view, they are quite different. Jim__ Mar 2015 #61

Hold on. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #62

Deontology also proscribes injuring people. Jim__ Mar 2015 #64

"equivalent to a doctor saving 5 people rather than 1 due to a lack of resources." AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #65

"Now we have equivalence." No, lying is also proscribed. Jim__ Mar 2015 #69

I thought the trap door was great as well, but I came to a different conclusion. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #72

You abstain from nothing you make a concious choice to do nothing Leontius Mar 2015 #73

If I throw that lever, I own a murder. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #74

Exactly what I said, you conciously choose to allow five people to die Leontius Mar 2015 #75

I don't own responsiblity for the impending deaths. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #76

Yes you do own that responsibility you have the ability to act and you choose not to. Leontius Mar 2015 #77

Inaction and action are not equal propositions. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #78

They are exactly equal propositions both lead to what happens. Leontius Mar 2015 #80

If I choose inaction, the five deaths are the responsibility of AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #81

You can try to divert responsibility to others if you think it will make you feel better about Leontius Mar 2015 #84

It's not about 'feeling better'. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #86

Key word in your first sentence "my" Leontius Mar 2015 #87

Any other choice imperils our entire species. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #88

So does yours. Leontius Mar 2015 #89

Fair point. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #90

Sadly it's true there is no solution all can agree on Leontius Mar 2015 #91

That definitely sounds like you'd do nothing, to feel better muriel_volestrangler Mar 2015 #92

Not exactly. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #95

It's your belief that inaction is better than trying to save more people that looks odd muriel_volestrangler Mar 2015 #96

Number of lives is just another metric. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #97

In the absence of other data, saving more lives (or killing fewer, however you want to look at it) muriel_volestrangler Mar 2015 #98

When you said you would let all life on the planet die to maintain your principle Leontius Mar 2015 #99

I'm saying I refuse to establish or accept a precedent that involves killing innocent people AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #100

The aspect of Ivan's speech that I was getting at, was the acceptance of responsibility. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #101

And the five you killed by your choice what absolution do you expect for that? Leontius Mar 2015 #102

I did not cause it. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #103

Your choice is to allow one person to die or five people to die. Leontius Mar 2015 #104

I didn't say 'no choice'. I am certainly making a choice. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #105

So in order to avoid your moral culpability you now turn to law. Leontius Mar 2015 #106

No, I'm pointing out that in all this time, despite your certainty that inaction is immoral, AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #107

Law is not morality. Leontius Mar 2015 #108

Its not the controlling factor at all. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #109

Humanity is the arbiter of morality and goodness. Promethean Mar 2015 #9

Great answer. n/t trotsky Mar 2015 #16

Would this axiom survive first contact with an intelligent species somewhere else in the universe? AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #43

I included learning and growth into it. Promethean Mar 2015 #53

No, no nefarious intent. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #54

That one is tough to wrangle. Promethean Mar 2015 #56

In the end, we all are. (nt) stone space Mar 2015 #10

I am the final arbiter. I am the god of hellfire. kwassa Mar 2015 #14

"I am the God of Hellfire" stone space Mar 2015 #63

I saw this yesterday and have been thinking about it TexasProgresive Mar 2015 #22

That line of thinking is a bit disturbing. trotsky Mar 2015 #23

I believe that is God in the end. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #24

How can you say clergy? Fix The Stupid Mar 2015 #33

They are people just like the rest of us and helpful to me in moral guidance. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #44

I do wonder how God and the Bible can influence your morality... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #68

I am. Bow before my magnificence. razorman Mar 2015 #28

The common human faculty of sympathy. rogerashton Mar 2015 #29

Reason. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #31

I think once one comes of age, the responsibility rests with the individual. My influences - pinto Mar 2015 #35

For my morality, I am. Jim__ Mar 2015 #51

My morals tend to originate from favorite fiction characters Android3.14 Mar 2015 #52

Which ones? cbayer Mar 2015 #57

There is no final arbiter...nt uriel1972 Mar 2015 #55

Ain't one, far as I can tell. Iggo Mar 2015 #58

Using reason, and the best available information to determine how to preserve... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #67

So, were you going to come back and contribute anything to your thread? n/t trotsky Mar 2015 #71

You Rang? libodem Mar 2015 #79

There is no "final arbiter" GliderGuider Mar 2015 #94