Religion

Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)

5. I was born with this way. I have always considered myself a good person. I have always wanted

Tue Mar 3, 2015, 05:22 PM

Mar 2015

to be a good person and do good in the world. Although I have made bad choices leading me to do wrong things, for which I feel tremendous remorse and guilt. I prefer to make good choices that enhance mine and others well-being. I choose to help people instead of hurt them, even though I grew up with parents who would rather harm others.

Being moral, doing good (and being immoral, doing bad) is in our DNA. It's in our soul/spirit. The choice between good and bad is really a matter of choosing between helping/healing others - the good or harming/degrading others - the bad. Some people feel pleasure from making others feel good about themselves, others get pleasure from hurting others. Morally, the high road is the road of goodness to self and other, which encourages life. The low road, the bad road of immorality is the one of harming and abusing others discouraging growth of life.

So in essence morality is that which encourages healthy growth of life, which is good. Life itself is the arbiter of morality and good.

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Who or what is the final arbiter of morality and good? [View all] Leontius Mar 2015 OP

My own conscience is the final arbiter. cbayer Mar 2015 #1

VERY good answer rock Mar 2015 #85

Thanks, rock! You are absolutely right - it is those without cbayer Mar 2015 #93

Jeffrey Lebowski Act_of_Reparation Mar 2015 #2

Loaded question. trotsky Mar 2015 #3

the 87th uber-god. nt. Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #4

I was born with this way. I have always considered myself a good person. I have always wanted Dont call me Shirley Mar 2015 #5

Does it physically hurt others or block their rights on point Mar 2015 #6

^^ Well said Hestia Mar 2015 #7

If only it were that simple. trotsky Mar 2015 #8

Individual has sovereignty over their own body. Anti choicer nixed. Next on point Mar 2015 #12

Anti-choicer believes fetus is an individual. Try again. n/t trotsky Mar 2015 #13

Their beliefs are irrelevant. They don't have ANY sovereignty over a woman's body on point Mar 2015 #17

Oh, I see. trotsky Mar 2015 #20

Rights are coupled to personhood. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #38

Oh neither do I. trotsky Mar 2015 #39

In a case like that, you balance the rights of bodily autonomy for the living, breathing... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #66

I agree, but of course that's not how they see the equation at all. trotsky Mar 2015 #70

There are a whole set of "trolley car dilemma" ethics puzzles Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #11

It's disappointing that even among self-professed liberals... trotsky Mar 2015 #15

It's simpler. okasha Mar 2015 #18

Oh Hai Okasha! Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #19

LOl okasha Mar 2015 #25

"Reality based"? You're funny. mr blur Mar 2015 #26

A little humor is a good thing. okasha Mar 2015 #27

Where did the other person come from? trotsky Mar 2015 #21

The trolley test is a bifurcation mechanism. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #36

I would refrain from intervening. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #30

Suppose it is 1000 to 1 Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #32

There is no ratio at which I would intervene. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #34

What if it was all of humanity? trotsky Mar 2015 #37

I would die with my principles intact. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #40

Well let's say the folks on the space station could remain on it long enough... trotsky Mar 2015 #41

No, except AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #42

Yeah I can say I'd have no problem diverting the asteroid. trotsky Mar 2015 #46

Yeah, I'm ok with informed consent, self-sacrifice, that's cool. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #47

What if Hitler is on the space station? trotsky Mar 2015 #49

No, if you want to get hitler, you need that asteroid to hit, because he's underground. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #50

I offer a counter to that saying Kelvin Mace Mar 2015 #82

"I would die with my principles intact." LTX Mar 2015 #110

Ah, another 'murder' contestant. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #111

As duly noted below, culpability can affix to inaction as well as action. LTX Mar 2015 #112

I posted this downthread but, here's an interesting lecture/Q-A session, also from Harvard on this. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #45

in the real world you just grab the ankles Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #48

My choice would be to let the Kelvin Mace Mar 2015 #83

The audience response was consistent across the trolley and medical scenarios. Jim__ Mar 2015 #59

No it isn't. The Trolley dilemma is precisely the same whether it's the driver or a person on the AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #60

From a deontological point of view, they are quite different. Jim__ Mar 2015 #61

Hold on. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #62

Deontology also proscribes injuring people. Jim__ Mar 2015 #64

"equivalent to a doctor saving 5 people rather than 1 due to a lack of resources." AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #65

"Now we have equivalence." No, lying is also proscribed. Jim__ Mar 2015 #69

I thought the trap door was great as well, but I came to a different conclusion. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #72

You abstain from nothing you make a concious choice to do nothing Leontius Mar 2015 #73

If I throw that lever, I own a murder. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #74

Exactly what I said, you conciously choose to allow five people to die Leontius Mar 2015 #75

I don't own responsiblity for the impending deaths. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #76

Yes you do own that responsibility you have the ability to act and you choose not to. Leontius Mar 2015 #77

Inaction and action are not equal propositions. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #78

They are exactly equal propositions both lead to what happens. Leontius Mar 2015 #80

If I choose inaction, the five deaths are the responsibility of AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #81

You can try to divert responsibility to others if you think it will make you feel better about Leontius Mar 2015 #84

It's not about 'feeling better'. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #86

Key word in your first sentence "my" Leontius Mar 2015 #87

Any other choice imperils our entire species. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #88

So does yours. Leontius Mar 2015 #89

Fair point. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #90

Sadly it's true there is no solution all can agree on Leontius Mar 2015 #91

That definitely sounds like you'd do nothing, to feel better muriel_volestrangler Mar 2015 #92

Not exactly. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #95

It's your belief that inaction is better than trying to save more people that looks odd muriel_volestrangler Mar 2015 #96

Number of lives is just another metric. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #97

In the absence of other data, saving more lives (or killing fewer, however you want to look at it) muriel_volestrangler Mar 2015 #98

When you said you would let all life on the planet die to maintain your principle Leontius Mar 2015 #99

I'm saying I refuse to establish or accept a precedent that involves killing innocent people AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #100

The aspect of Ivan's speech that I was getting at, was the acceptance of responsibility. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #101

And the five you killed by your choice what absolution do you expect for that? Leontius Mar 2015 #102

I did not cause it. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #103

Your choice is to allow one person to die or five people to die. Leontius Mar 2015 #104

I didn't say 'no choice'. I am certainly making a choice. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #105

So in order to avoid your moral culpability you now turn to law. Leontius Mar 2015 #106

No, I'm pointing out that in all this time, despite your certainty that inaction is immoral, AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #107

Law is not morality. Leontius Mar 2015 #108

Its not the controlling factor at all. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #109

Humanity is the arbiter of morality and goodness. Promethean Mar 2015 #9

Great answer. n/t trotsky Mar 2015 #16

Would this axiom survive first contact with an intelligent species somewhere else in the universe? AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #43

I included learning and growth into it. Promethean Mar 2015 #53

No, no nefarious intent. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #54

That one is tough to wrangle. Promethean Mar 2015 #56

In the end, we all are. (nt) stone space Mar 2015 #10

I am the final arbiter. I am the god of hellfire. kwassa Mar 2015 #14

"I am the God of Hellfire" stone space Mar 2015 #63

I saw this yesterday and have been thinking about it TexasProgresive Mar 2015 #22

That line of thinking is a bit disturbing. trotsky Mar 2015 #23

I believe that is God in the end. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #24

How can you say clergy? Fix The Stupid Mar 2015 #33

They are people just like the rest of us and helpful to me in moral guidance. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #44

I do wonder how God and the Bible can influence your morality... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #68

I am. Bow before my magnificence. razorman Mar 2015 #28

The common human faculty of sympathy. rogerashton Mar 2015 #29

Reason. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #31

I think once one comes of age, the responsibility rests with the individual. My influences - pinto Mar 2015 #35

For my morality, I am. Jim__ Mar 2015 #51

My morals tend to originate from favorite fiction characters Android3.14 Mar 2015 #52

Which ones? cbayer Mar 2015 #57

There is no final arbiter...nt uriel1972 Mar 2015 #55

Ain't one, far as I can tell. Iggo Mar 2015 #58

Using reason, and the best available information to determine how to preserve... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #67

So, were you going to come back and contribute anything to your thread? n/t trotsky Mar 2015 #71

You Rang? libodem Mar 2015 #79

There is no "final arbiter" GliderGuider Mar 2015 #94