Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Religion

In reply to the discussion: In the spirit of Mark Twain [View all]
 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
26. Here's a slightly more organized run at the concept
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 11:16 PM
Mar 2015

As I use the word, beliefs are essentially the "a priori assumptions" about the world that form the foundation of our value system.

Examples of the sorts of beliefs/assumptions I'm talking about might include:

"There is (or is not) a reality separate from my perceptions."
"1+1 = 2."
"Dick Cheney is evil."
"There is a God."
"Religion is a crutch."
"Technology is good."
"Human social behavior is constrained by the Second Law of Thermodynamics".

Here's one way the associated neural/mental process flow might operate:

» Perceptions are the primary data inputs to the organism;
» Emotions mediate those perceptions, transforming the data into mental activity;
» Beliefs then frame the emotions, giving the emotional activity a defined ideational structure;
» The structure allows us then to apply reason to those beliefs, and thus to the original perceptional data that they frame.

From this point of view, the ability to form beliefs is a prerequisite for reason, because without the belief there is no abstract but well-formed mental structure against which to apply reason.

Animals may have beliefs, but they may be limited to basic interpretations of the world based closely on their perceptions, or are more along the line of conditioned expectations. Of course this idea is itself one of my own beliefs.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

In the spirit of Mark Twain [View all] GliderGuider Mar 2015 OP
Actually we don't know that. Agnosticsherbet Mar 2015 #1
A small dog will go out into sub-freezing weather... stone space Mar 2015 #4
You're conflating different meanings of "believe" skepticscott Mar 2015 #2
Not according to the philosophers at Stanford. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #55
Aside from the fact skepticscott Mar 2015 #62
Can you point out the discrepancies? nt GliderGuider Mar 2015 #67
Under the definition you put forth as authoritative skepticscott Mar 2015 #112
Of course I get that. My Twain paraphrase contained some literary license. nt GliderGuider Mar 2015 #113
The War Prayer stone space Mar 2015 #3
You're positing a distinctive human propensity toward belief? bvf Mar 2015 #5
I don't actually. I'm putting this out as an invitation for discussion. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #6
That's the most glaring bvf Mar 2015 #7
What do you believe is self-contradictory in what I said? nt GliderGuider Mar 2015 #8
Review your OP bvf Mar 2015 #9
Do you believe Thoreau wrote word salad too? GliderGuider Mar 2015 #10
And now you're likening yourself to Thoreau? bvf Mar 2015 #11
I'm also like Thoreau (or Whitman, or you) in that I'm bilaterally symmetrical. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #36
Prove it. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #61
That's not Thoreau but Walt Whitman struggle4progress Mar 2015 #31
Thanks. bvf Mar 2015 #32
Thanks for catching that. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #33
Do you know the metaphor at play here? Goblinmonger Mar 2015 #45
My intent was simply to indicate that I don't mind being seen as self-contradictory. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #46
And it appears you'd still rather insult the individual than defend your argument. trotsky Mar 2015 #47
This has nothing to do with a defense team, but a misuse of literature. Goblinmonger Mar 2015 #48
God forbid I should get uppity! GliderGuider Mar 2015 #49
Here's a hint when you get uppity. Goblinmonger Mar 2015 #50
Thanks, dad. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #51
Or don't. But if you make another statement like the one above Goblinmonger Mar 2015 #53
Seriously, I meant it when I said I'd keep it in mind. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #54
This bears no resemblance to word salad. cbayer Mar 2015 #52
It bears no resemblance to logical prose, either. bvf Mar 2015 #57
Then say it has no resemblance to logical prose. cbayer Mar 2015 #75
Argue this: bvf Mar 2015 #76
Yep. No argument. Done. cbayer Mar 2015 #77
There is a colloquial usage of the term. bvf Mar 2015 #78
Even the Urban dictionary definition refers to psychopathology. cbayer Mar 2015 #79
Yes, the Urban Dictionary bvf Mar 2015 #81
There is nothing on that page that refers to word salad. cbayer Mar 2015 #82
Open your eyes for once. bvf Mar 2015 #85
Ability, capacity, need, propensity... I'm not sure you are expressing the word associated with AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #60
Kind of makes you wonder bvf Mar 2015 #66
Do you believe that 1+1=2? GliderGuider Mar 2015 #68
I assume 1+1=2 because I can empirically demonstrate it. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #70
So you would disagree with this description of belief, then? GliderGuider Mar 2015 #72
Twain was talking about metaphysical faith. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #83
It wasn't Twain who wrote that quote. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #84
Ok, then you have paraphrased and altered it as... AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #86
He admits as such in post #41. trotsky Mar 2015 #90
Does certainty equal wisdom? GliderGuider Mar 2015 #91
The members of ISIS appear to have found a position that satisfies their own psychological needs. trotsky Mar 2015 #92
No, not "good for them." It's just what human beings do, for better or (in their case) worse. nt GliderGuider Mar 2015 #94
I'm apparently not using a meaning for the word "believe" that's common in this forum, GliderGuider Mar 2015 #93
I think your biggest mistake was taking a word - belief - that has multiple distinct meanings... trotsky Mar 2015 #95
Yes, I used a generic definition without making it clear that's what I was doing. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #96
I would suggest dropping it in the Philosophy group. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #97
Agreed. I didn't even realize there was a Philosophy group, thanks! GliderGuider Mar 2015 #98
No worries AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #99
I've posted something like this over on the Philosophy forum now GliderGuider Mar 2015 #114
Do you believe it, bvf Mar 2015 #74
So long as it's being asked in base 10, and is using standard arithmetic notation, yes. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #89
"Yes" is not a valid answer to the question, bvf Mar 2015 #105
I answered "yes" to the question in your subject line. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #106
What do you regard as bvf Mar 2015 #110
An obvious proposition would be something like "my mug is sitting on the coffee table." GliderGuider Mar 2015 #111
Which of your senses bvf Mar 2015 #115
None of them, obviously. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #116
My question just then employed no symbology bvf Mar 2015 #117
That was well-planned and very educational. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #118
The sort of unquestioning general belief-in-general practiced by most people GliderGuider Mar 2015 #12
No. bvf Mar 2015 #13
Ah well. No fun to be had here, eh? GliderGuider Mar 2015 #14
I suppose. bvf Mar 2015 #15
That's what the "loosening up" business is all about. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #16
Suffering fools gladly? bvf Mar 2015 #18
Dennett has pondered similar questions. longship Mar 2015 #17
I realize that this group centers around a particular set of Iron Age beliefs GliderGuider Mar 2015 #21
Our propensity to understand and explain is what defines us as human. trotsky Mar 2015 #19
Brilliant! Great post Starboard Tack Mar 2015 #20
Maybe in your world skepticscott Mar 2015 #22
In my use of the word, a belief is essentially an a priori assumption. nt GliderGuider Mar 2015 #23
You are correct, definitely in my world. Starboard Tack Mar 2015 #30
Hey there ST! cbayer Mar 2015 #25
Mis oidos estan quemando Starboard Tack Mar 2015 #40
And those of us with no belief... Are we then lacking in a sense of self-purpose? AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #59
If you think you have no beliefs, then you delude yourself. Starboard Tack Mar 2015 #73
Well, it's a good thing I didn't do that. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #80
"what hope have you of accurately representing my ideas?" Starboard Tack Mar 2015 #87
You're the one trying to paraphrase things back. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #88
Nice post, GG and glad to see you around. cbayer Mar 2015 #24
Um..no..reason is NOT based only on evidence skepticscott Mar 2015 #27
Here's a slightly more organized run at the concept GliderGuider Mar 2015 #26
Now you're conflating "belief" and "assumption" skepticscott Mar 2015 #28
I'm saying precisely that belief is not exclusive to the realm of religion GliderGuider Mar 2015 #29
I think belief can enter between the sensory input and the perception. Jim__ Mar 2015 #34
That's an interesting possibility. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #35
Here are two statements: trotsky Mar 2015 #37
In the way I'm using the word, those are both beliefs. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #38
You didn't answer my question. trotsky Mar 2015 #39
They're different shades along the same spectrum. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #41
One is an expectation based on past experience skepticscott Mar 2015 #42
Here is a bit of background reading on belief that might be helpful GliderGuider Mar 2015 #43
So they're different. Thanks. n/t trotsky Mar 2015 #44
I'd say they are qualitatively different FiveGoodMen Mar 2015 #101
They're both still beliefs, in the general sense of the term. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #103
bat and blue whale both mammals FiveGoodMen Mar 2015 #104
We obviously have different points of view GliderGuider Mar 2015 #108
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh! stone space Mar 2015 #100
"when arithmetical addition has been defined..." GliderGuider Mar 2015 #102
It only took them 300 pages to prove it. stone space Mar 2015 #107
I bet they didn't think it was a trivial issue at the end of THAT! GliderGuider Mar 2015 #109
I object to the idea that our propensity toward belief is exclusively human... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #56
I agree. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #58
Propensity towards belief is not absolute in Homo Sapiens Sapiens. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #63
It depends on whether you constrain the definition of belief to include only religion GliderGuider Mar 2015 #64
Hmm. Seems like philosophical hair splitting. Did you see my post 60? AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #65
Yes, I did. Did you see my post #43? GliderGuider Mar 2015 #69
I have. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #71
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Religion»In the spirit of Mark Twa...»Reply #26