Religion

trotsky

(49,533 posts)

37. Here are two statements:

Wed Mar 4, 2015, 08:57 AM

Mar 2015

1) "I believe this chair will support my weight and not collapse when I sit on it."

2) "I believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins and I will spend eternity in heaven with him when I die."

Now here's a belief question for you: Are those two examples of belief the same?

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In the spirit of Mark Twain [View all] GliderGuider Mar 2015 OP

Actually we don't know that. Agnosticsherbet Mar 2015 #1

A small dog will go out into sub-freezing weather... stone space Mar 2015 #4

You're conflating different meanings of "believe" skepticscott Mar 2015 #2

Not according to the philosophers at Stanford. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #55

Aside from the fact skepticscott Mar 2015 #62

Can you point out the discrepancies? nt GliderGuider Mar 2015 #67

Under the definition you put forth as authoritative skepticscott Mar 2015 #112

Of course I get that. My Twain paraphrase contained some literary license. nt GliderGuider Mar 2015 #113

The War Prayer stone space Mar 2015 #3

You're positing a distinctive human propensity toward belief? bvf Mar 2015 #5

I don't actually. I'm putting this out as an invitation for discussion. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #6

That's the most glaring bvf Mar 2015 #7

What do you believe is self-contradictory in what I said? nt GliderGuider Mar 2015 #8

Review your OP bvf Mar 2015 #9

Do you believe Thoreau wrote word salad too? GliderGuider Mar 2015 #10

And now you're likening yourself to Thoreau? bvf Mar 2015 #11

I'm also like Thoreau (or Whitman, or you) in that I'm bilaterally symmetrical. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #36

Prove it. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #61

That's not Thoreau but Walt Whitman struggle4progress Mar 2015 #31

Thanks. bvf Mar 2015 #32

Thanks for catching that. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #33

Do you know the metaphor at play here? Goblinmonger Mar 2015 #45

My intent was simply to indicate that I don't mind being seen as self-contradictory. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #46

And it appears you'd still rather insult the individual than defend your argument. trotsky Mar 2015 #47

This has nothing to do with a defense team, but a misuse of literature. Goblinmonger Mar 2015 #48

God forbid I should get uppity! GliderGuider Mar 2015 #49

Here's a hint when you get uppity. Goblinmonger Mar 2015 #50

Thanks, dad. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #51

Or don't. But if you make another statement like the one above Goblinmonger Mar 2015 #53

Seriously, I meant it when I said I'd keep it in mind. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #54

This bears no resemblance to word salad. cbayer Mar 2015 #52

It bears no resemblance to logical prose, either. bvf Mar 2015 #57

Then say it has no resemblance to logical prose. cbayer Mar 2015 #75

Argue this: bvf Mar 2015 #76

Yep. No argument. Done. cbayer Mar 2015 #77

There is a colloquial usage of the term. bvf Mar 2015 #78

Even the Urban dictionary definition refers to psychopathology. cbayer Mar 2015 #79

Yes, the Urban Dictionary bvf Mar 2015 #81

There is nothing on that page that refers to word salad. cbayer Mar 2015 #82

Open your eyes for once. bvf Mar 2015 #85

Ability, capacity, need, propensity... I'm not sure you are expressing the word associated with AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #60

Kind of makes you wonder bvf Mar 2015 #66

Do you believe that 1+1=2? GliderGuider Mar 2015 #68

I assume 1+1=2 because I can empirically demonstrate it. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #70

So you would disagree with this description of belief, then? GliderGuider Mar 2015 #72

Twain was talking about metaphysical faith. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #83

It wasn't Twain who wrote that quote. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #84

Ok, then you have paraphrased and altered it as... AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #86

He admits as such in post #41. trotsky Mar 2015 #90

Does certainty equal wisdom? GliderGuider Mar 2015 #91

The members of ISIS appear to have found a position that satisfies their own psychological needs. trotsky Mar 2015 #92

No, not "good for them." It's just what human beings do, for better or (in their case) worse. nt GliderGuider Mar 2015 #94

I'm apparently not using a meaning for the word "believe" that's common in this forum, GliderGuider Mar 2015 #93

I think your biggest mistake was taking a word - belief - that has multiple distinct meanings... trotsky Mar 2015 #95

Yes, I used a generic definition without making it clear that's what I was doing. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #96

I would suggest dropping it in the Philosophy group. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #97

Agreed. I didn't even realize there was a Philosophy group, thanks! GliderGuider Mar 2015 #98

No worries AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #99

I've posted something like this over on the Philosophy forum now GliderGuider Mar 2015 #114

Do you believe it, bvf Mar 2015 #74

So long as it's being asked in base 10, and is using standard arithmetic notation, yes. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #89

"Yes" is not a valid answer to the question, bvf Mar 2015 #105

I answered "yes" to the question in your subject line. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #106

What do you regard as bvf Mar 2015 #110

An obvious proposition would be something like "my mug is sitting on the coffee table." GliderGuider Mar 2015 #111

Which of your senses bvf Mar 2015 #115

None of them, obviously. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #116

My question just then employed no symbology bvf Mar 2015 #117

That was well-planned and very educational. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #118

The sort of unquestioning general belief-in-general practiced by most people GliderGuider Mar 2015 #12

No. bvf Mar 2015 #13

Ah well. No fun to be had here, eh? GliderGuider Mar 2015 #14

I suppose. bvf Mar 2015 #15

That's what the "loosening up" business is all about. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #16

Suffering fools gladly? bvf Mar 2015 #18

Dennett has pondered similar questions. longship Mar 2015 #17

I realize that this group centers around a particular set of Iron Age beliefs GliderGuider Mar 2015 #21

Our propensity to understand and explain is what defines us as human. trotsky Mar 2015 #19

Brilliant! Great post Starboard Tack Mar 2015 #20

Maybe in your world skepticscott Mar 2015 #22

In my use of the word, a belief is essentially an a priori assumption. nt GliderGuider Mar 2015 #23

You are correct, definitely in my world. Starboard Tack Mar 2015 #30

Hey there ST! cbayer Mar 2015 #25

Mis oidos estan quemando Starboard Tack Mar 2015 #40

And those of us with no belief... Are we then lacking in a sense of self-purpose? AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #59

If you think you have no beliefs, then you delude yourself. Starboard Tack Mar 2015 #73

Well, it's a good thing I didn't do that. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #80

"what hope have you of accurately representing my ideas?" Starboard Tack Mar 2015 #87

You're the one trying to paraphrase things back. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #88

Nice post, GG and glad to see you around. cbayer Mar 2015 #24

Um..no..reason is NOT based only on evidence skepticscott Mar 2015 #27

Here's a slightly more organized run at the concept GliderGuider Mar 2015 #26

Now you're conflating "belief" and "assumption" skepticscott Mar 2015 #28

I'm saying precisely that belief is not exclusive to the realm of religion GliderGuider Mar 2015 #29

I think belief can enter between the sensory input and the perception. Jim__ Mar 2015 #34

That's an interesting possibility. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #35

Here are two statements: trotsky Mar 2015 #37

In the way I'm using the word, those are both beliefs. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #38

You didn't answer my question. trotsky Mar 2015 #39

They're different shades along the same spectrum. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #41

One is an expectation based on past experience skepticscott Mar 2015 #42

Here is a bit of background reading on belief that might be helpful GliderGuider Mar 2015 #43

So they're different. Thanks. n/t trotsky Mar 2015 #44

I'd say they are qualitatively different FiveGoodMen Mar 2015 #101

They're both still beliefs, in the general sense of the term. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #103

bat and blue whale both mammals FiveGoodMen Mar 2015 #104

We obviously have different points of view GliderGuider Mar 2015 #108

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh! stone space Mar 2015 #100

"when arithmetical addition has been defined..." GliderGuider Mar 2015 #102

It only took them 300 pages to prove it. stone space Mar 2015 #107

I bet they didn't think it was a trivial issue at the end of THAT! GliderGuider Mar 2015 #109

I object to the idea that our propensity toward belief is exclusively human... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #56

I agree. GliderGuider Mar 2015 #58

Propensity towards belief is not absolute in Homo Sapiens Sapiens. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #63

It depends on whether you constrain the definition of belief to include only religion GliderGuider Mar 2015 #64

Hmm. Seems like philosophical hair splitting. Did you see my post 60? AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #65

Yes, I did. Did you see my post #43? GliderGuider Mar 2015 #69

I have. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #71