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In reply to the discussion: Who or what is the final arbiter of morality and good? [View all]Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)48. in the real world you just grab the ankles
so have fun with your toys. Or some other bullshit.
It is interesting how changing the context and parameters messes with people's ethical analysis.
You are walking near a trolley-car track when you notice five people tied to it in a row. The next instant, you see a trolley hurtling toward them, out of control. A signal lever is within your reach; if you pull it, you can divert the runaway trolley down a side track, saving the five but killing another person, who is tied to that spur. What do you do? Most people say they would pull the lever: Better that one person should die instead of five.
Now, a different scenario. You are on a footbridge overlooking the track, where five people are tied down and the trolley is rushing toward them. There is no spur this time, but near you on the bridge is a chubby man. If you heave him over the side, he will fall on the track and his bulk will stop the trolley. He will die in the process. What do you do? (We presume your own body is too svelte to stop the trolley, should you be considering noble self-sacrifice.)
In numerical terms, the two situations are identical. A strict utilitarian, concerned only with the greatest happiness of the greatest number, would see no difference: In each case, one person dies to save five. Yet people seem to feel differently about the Fat Man case. The thought of seizing a random bystander, ignoring his screams, wrestling him to the railing and tumbling him over is too much. Surveys suggest that up to 90 percent of us would throw the lever in Spur, while a similar percentage think the Fat Man should not be thrown off the bridge. Yet, if asked, people find it hard to give logical reasons for this choice. Assaulting the Fat Man just feels wrong; our instincts cry out against it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/24/books/review/would-you-kill-the-fat-man-and-the-trolley-problem.html?_r=0
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I was born with this way. I have always considered myself a good person. I have always wanted
Dont call me Shirley
Mar 2015
#5
Their beliefs are irrelevant. They don't have ANY sovereignty over a woman's body
on point
Mar 2015
#17
In a case like that, you balance the rights of bodily autonomy for the living, breathing...
Humanist_Activist
Mar 2015
#66
Well let's say the folks on the space station could remain on it long enough...
trotsky
Mar 2015
#41
No, if you want to get hitler, you need that asteroid to hit, because he's underground.
AtheistCrusader
Mar 2015
#50
I posted this downthread but, here's an interesting lecture/Q-A session, also from Harvard on this.
AtheistCrusader
Mar 2015
#45
No it isn't. The Trolley dilemma is precisely the same whether it's the driver or a person on the
AtheistCrusader
Mar 2015
#60
"equivalent to a doctor saving 5 people rather than 1 due to a lack of resources."
AtheistCrusader
Mar 2015
#65
I thought the trap door was great as well, but I came to a different conclusion.
AtheistCrusader
Mar 2015
#72
Yes you do own that responsibility you have the ability to act and you choose not to.
Leontius
Mar 2015
#77
You can try to divert responsibility to others if you think it will make you feel better about
Leontius
Mar 2015
#84
It's your belief that inaction is better than trying to save more people that looks odd
muriel_volestrangler
Mar 2015
#96
In the absence of other data, saving more lives (or killing fewer, however you want to look at it)
muriel_volestrangler
Mar 2015
#98
When you said you would let all life on the planet die to maintain your principle
Leontius
Mar 2015
#99
I'm saying I refuse to establish or accept a precedent that involves killing innocent people
AtheistCrusader
Mar 2015
#100
The aspect of Ivan's speech that I was getting at, was the acceptance of responsibility.
AtheistCrusader
Mar 2015
#101
And the five you killed by your choice what absolution do you expect for that?
Leontius
Mar 2015
#102
No, I'm pointing out that in all this time, despite your certainty that inaction is immoral,
AtheistCrusader
Mar 2015
#107
Would this axiom survive first contact with an intelligent species somewhere else in the universe?
AtheistCrusader
Mar 2015
#43
They are people just like the rest of us and helpful to me in moral guidance.
hrmjustin
Mar 2015
#44
I think once one comes of age, the responsibility rests with the individual. My influences -
pinto
Mar 2015
#35
Using reason, and the best available information to determine how to preserve...
Humanist_Activist
Mar 2015
#67