Religion

SoLeftIAmRight

(4,883 posts)

84. refusal to have so common understanding...

Tue Mar 24, 2015, 06:45 PM

Mar 2015

Atheism and Agnosticism
First published Tue Mar 9, 2004; substantive revision Mon Aug 8, 2011

The main purpose of this article is to explore the differences between atheism and agnosticism, and the relations between them. The task is made more difficult because each of these words are what Wittgenstein called ‘family resemblance’ words. That is, we cannot expect to find a set of necessary and sufficient conditions for their use. Their use is appropriate if a fair number of the conditions are satisfied. Moreover even particular members of the families are often imprecise, and sometimes almost completely obscure. Sometimes a person who is really an atheist may describe herself, even passionately, as an agnostic because of unreasonable generalised philosophical scepticism which would preclude us from saying that we know anything whatever except perhaps the truths of mathematics and formal logic.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/atheism-agnosticism/

Light banter about these topics is irrational.

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Greta Christina argues against ecumenicalism: Why Should Atheists Have to Show Respect For Religion? [View all] backscatter712 Mar 2015 OP

Does Greta read this forum? Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #1

+1000 n/t trotsky Mar 2015 #2

The very same notion crossed my mind as I read that bit. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2015 #4

This blurb makes me swear she lurks here. trotsky Mar 2015 #8

I dunno. The resemblance is striking... Act_of_Reparation Mar 2015 #16

Don't be so disrespectful, will you? bvf Mar 2015 #23

Unpossible. LiberalAndProud Mar 2015 #10

Check this out - from Greta's "Shut up, that's why!" piece: trotsky Mar 2015 #12

LOL! bvf Mar 2015 #15

This message was self-deleted by its author bvf Mar 2015 #13

Indeed. Should be required reading. n/t. bvf Mar 2015 #14

Show respect toward religion? Why should anyone be expected to show respect cbayer Mar 2015 #3

Well, well. trotsky Mar 2015 #6

That's one of the points that Greta made in her article. backscatter712 Mar 2015 #9

I enjoyed reading her article and I find her an articulate and entertaining cbayer Mar 2015 #11

Why should anyone be expected to show respect towards something that they don't believe in? AlbertCat Mar 2015 #48

Do you respect religion? If so, you have a great way of hiding it. cbayer Mar 2015 #54

you have a great way of hiding it. AlbertCat Mar 2015 #57

If not setting places on fire is where you are putting the respect bar, then I guess cbayer Mar 2015 #60

I will show respect for main stream religion when they show respect for... Hepburn Mar 2015 #5

What about individuals? cbayer Mar 2015 #7

If religion, and religious people, SheilaT Mar 2015 #17

I agree with "Do unto others". cbayer Mar 2015 #18

And amazingly enough, it is often those who most loudly SheilaT Mar 2015 #20

There is no shortage of hypocrites, but there are also those who are not. cbayer Mar 2015 #26

My mother was Eastern Star. We alfredo Mar 2015 #92

Dogmatic fundamentalist Atheist and Religious seems the same to me. SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #19

what exactly is a "Dogmatic fundamentalist Atheist"? Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #21

If you are not one - why worry? SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #25

You used the term "Dogmatic fundamentalist Atheist". Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #35

I am not interested in a semantic argument SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #37

why don't you clarify what you meant using your own words? Lordquinton Mar 2015 #40

I will use your definition of atheist AlbertCat Mar 2015 #50

Here - can you do better? SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #51

The main purpose of this article is to explore the differences between atheism and agnosticism, AlbertCat Mar 2015 #169

I think it points to the fact SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #170

I will use your definition of atheist AlbertCat Mar 2015 #55

Here - want to move forward? SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #59

Since you are unable to respond in your own words Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #70

your unwillingness to rationally look at these issues SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #72

So you cannot give a single example of a "dogmatic fundamentalist atheist". Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #73

I tried to be polite SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #77

Asking for one example of your "Dogmatic fundamentalist atheist" is insulting? Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #78

I have tried to be very very clear SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #88

You posted flamebait and have been nothing but obtuse since. nt. Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #136

This is not obtuse... SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #139

Apparently, accusing people of being irrational skepticscott Mar 2015 #80

refusal to have so common understanding... SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #84

Still waiting for an example of a dogmatic fundamentalist atheist. nt. Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #87

check your inbox SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #94

You have yet to provide a single example of your "dogmatic fundamentalist atheist". Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #131

This article you keep linking edhopper Mar 2015 #97

It clearly shows that without some common understanding of the words... SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #99

It does not show why you would use the term edhopper Mar 2015 #100

An excellent example of the point that the article was making..... Jeff Murdoch Mar 2015 #185

If you want to be pedantic... backscatter712 Mar 2015 #24

Please note - You say "they believe that deities" SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #30

I thought you said you weren't interested in a semantic argument? Lordquinton Mar 2015 #39

how so? SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #41

I'm not sure why you think it doesn't make sense. stone space Mar 2015 #151

all the time - every day? SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #159

I've done some work in the foundations of geometry. stone space Mar 2015 #160

not the work stuff SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #162

"Atheist make a simple mistake in thinking." AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #42

Want to move forward? SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #46

I already know what these words mean. I'm an agnostic atheist. Also an anti-theist. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #49

Words with nothing behind them unless you... SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #61

I use the dictionary definitions. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #63

I am 2/3 with you SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #69

Spinoza's god? AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #75

I too do not believe that SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #83

Sure, I like the idea too. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #86

" I just don't have any faith whatsoever" SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #119

Ill hit this in the morning when I get back to my computer AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #156

If our views on the likelihood of the existence of any diety are the same LiberalAndProud Mar 2015 #68

I am not so sure... SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #71

I think the likelihood that there is a supernatural superpower, based on the available evidence, LiberalAndProud Mar 2015 #74

would love to see those equations SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #82

What are your thoughts about a "spirit vastly superior to man?" LiberalAndProud Mar 2015 #85

I waste little time thinking about these things SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #89

Then why are you spending time in the religion forum? LiberalAndProud Mar 2015 #90

this thread hit the front page SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #91

Are you at all aware that your goto link for einstein is a bunch of Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #76

Most of these quotes are in the book Ideas and Opinions SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #79

Still waiting for an example of a dogmatic fundamentalist atheist. Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #81

Please, edhopper Mar 2015 #93

Let's start here SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #96

Sure edhopper Mar 2015 #98

I would not bring mathematics to this fight... SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #101

I was quoting the article which edhopper Mar 2015 #104

That is one of the mistakes SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #105

You obviously edhopper Mar 2015 #107

no, I missed it SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #108

this question edhopper Mar 2015 #112

thank you SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #114

Things for which there is no evidence edhopper Mar 2015 #115

I am not suggesting "acceptance" SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #120

I have seen no evidence edhopper Mar 2015 #124

i have not seen - is not thinking SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #126

I stand by edhopper Mar 2015 #129

sounds good SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #130

Why? edhopper Mar 2015 #135

Again... SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #137

I quoted edhopper Mar 2015 #140

This definition? SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #141

This edhopper Mar 2015 #143

good work SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #144

But you edhopper Mar 2015 #145

can you not see... SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #147

You are the one that seems to be edhopper Mar 2015 #150

Atheism - the doctrine or belief that there is no God SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #153

That is not the definition edhopper Mar 2015 #164

Remember! - For your viewing pleasure, mr blur Mar 2015 #167

heh-heh edhopper Mar 2015 #168

so, what is a dogmatic atheist? Lordquinton Mar 2015 #123

not hostile - not at all - just do not understand SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #125

You can not give one example of a dogmatic fundamentalist atheist. Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #132

Again... SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #138

what is that mistake, in your own words Lordquinton Mar 2015 #157

just a thought SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #158

I think you have a mistake in your thinking Lordquinton Mar 2015 #174

do you really want to do this? SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #176

I am more catmatic. nt awoke_in_2003 Mar 2015 #142

Since were talking definitions, would you be so kind? LiberalAndProud Mar 2015 #149

I just observe and I was cretainly more than a bit hyperbolic SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #152

Okay. LiberalAndProud Mar 2015 #154

I just hope people leave their minds open to "good thoughts" where ever they can be found SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #155

Of course; you think 'atheists are unable to reason', and you were banned for insulting them muriel_volestrangler Mar 2015 #184

love and kisses SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #210

I find it ironic how much time the atheist spend in the religion forum SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #211

The religion group is for discussion of religion, not for the practise of it muriel_volestrangler Mar 2015 #212

You can always tell when a poster like this skepticscott Mar 2015 #213

Not true SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #215

And I think you don't understand the meaning of LiberalAndProud Mar 2015 #216

can you do a better job than this SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #217

No. LiberalAndProud Mar 2015 #218

be well SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #219

Is that your bible or something? beam me up scottie Mar 2015 #225

My point is that a belief is a belief SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #230

Why are you citing the same source they use on CONSERVAPEDIA? beam me up scottie Mar 2015 #227

You're free to explain skepticscott Mar 2015 #220

you say it better SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #231

You're still free to explain skepticscott Mar 2015 #234

They do dislike having their own words thrown back at them. beam me up scottie Mar 2015 #224

I do not understand this reply - Please explain. SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #232

I look at the whole of history... SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #214

Since you object to 'soft atheist', perhaps you ought to read what you posted 9 times: muriel_volestrangler Mar 2015 #221

My point is that a belief is a belief SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #229

I do not understand this reply - Please explain. muriel_volestrangler Mar 2015 #233

"Ecumenicalism all too often leads to intolerance and hostility toward atheists". What a stretch. pinto Mar 2015 #22

She has built a straw man. cbayer Mar 2015 #27

Did you even read the article? skepticscott Mar 2015 #33

maybe this mercuryblues Mar 2015 #36

What does that have to do with ecumenicalism. cbayer Mar 2015 #43

Fair point. I've never seen Phil Robertson be even slightly ecumenical. backscatter712 Mar 2015 #64

This story about his fantasy with the atheism family is one of the cbayer Mar 2015 #66

He's a few french fries short of a Happy Meal... n/t backscatter712 Mar 2015 #67

He is mercuryblues Mar 2015 #102

I think he is even worse than a school yard bully, but his horrible behavior cbayer Mar 2015 #106

So mercuryblues Mar 2015 #117

Atheists and liberal/progressive people of faith should definitely push back against cbayer Mar 2015 #122

You must not spend much time around here. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2015 #52

Do you think that the shit that gets thrown around here only goes in one direction? cbayer Mar 2015 #56

No, I don't. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2015 #116

I think you are exaggerating here. cbayer Mar 2015 #121

I wonder why alternet is reprinting this as if it is new. cbayer Mar 2015 #28

they had a newspaper for this! MisterP Mar 2015 #29

Lol, the Russian version of Charlie Hebdo. cbayer Mar 2015 #32

I respect the right of every person to believe whatever Warpy Mar 2015 #31

This is a great approach and I bet it has served you and the ones you have taken care of well. cbayer Mar 2015 #34

great post Lordquinton Mar 2015 #38

Most religions I have come into contact with Mr.Bill Mar 2015 #44

Well, that would argue against this huge ecumenical push she constructed. cbayer Mar 2015 #45

I would settle for a politician Mr.Bill Mar 2015 #62

I think that's a great start as well. cbayer Mar 2015 #65

This message was self-deleted by its author cbayer Mar 2015 #47

I attended Catholic school as well bvf Mar 2015 #127

Yep, it's like when a religious person Mr.Bill Mar 2015 #128

More GOP in Congress and Senate Politicalboi Mar 2015 #53

Those churches denouncing these things are all over the place. cbayer Mar 2015 #58

People can criticize whatever belief they want. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #95

Agree. It's how it's done that is important. cbayer Mar 2015 #109

Agreed. Staying calm in conversations on this topic is important. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #110

Who the hell is Greta Christina? whathehell Mar 2015 #103

She's a self-described atheist activist and she wrote this over four years ago. cbayer Mar 2015 #111

Uh huh.. whathehell Mar 2015 #113

The article is old. She's done some really good stuff. cbayer Mar 2015 #118

"I suspect she's moved past this stage"? trotsky Mar 2015 #166

atheist activist is anyone who is not reluctant to express atheist views in public. nt. Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #134

Wow, so something written "over four years ago" should be dismissed due to age? Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #133

Good! bvf Mar 2015 #146

For the same reason religious folks should respect atheists. stone space Mar 2015 #148

There are thousands of religions... Kalidurga Mar 2015 #161

So you shouldn't respect Christianity. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2015 #163

Really? Funny I know plenty of devout Christians wwho have disobedient children and their kids are hrmjustin Mar 2015 #165

Some of the worse are MKs. stone space Mar 2015 #171

Then repudiate those parts of the Bible. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2015 #172

Well I would say a lot of Christians don't read thd bible fully. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #173

Yes they don't read it. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2015 #178

We are just not going to do that. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #179

When are they going to act like it? Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2015 #181

I understand thst but the canon of the bible will never change. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #182

Matthew 5:17 Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2015 #183

And it has always been interpreted differently what he meant. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #186

I see, nothing in the bible is to be taken literally. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2015 #188

People interpet it differently. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #189

What does that mean? Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2015 #190

It means I base my faith on a mix of scripture, tradition, and what makes sense to me. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #191

Got any specific examples? Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2015 #192

Well my faith is large but I will say... hrmjustin Mar 2015 #193

Specifics? Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2015 #196

It is more of a feeling than a criteria. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #197

You can't define it when asked, I see. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2015 #198

Well faith is much more than a sentence definition. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #199

Perhaps this. LiberalAndProud Mar 2015 #200

Thst is a good beginning. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #201

Wobbly Christian is a poor choice of words. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #202

Meh, take it in fun. If that is the worst thing you are called today, cbayer Mar 2015 #203

Some people seem to forget we are not all bible thumpers. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #204

It's not right when everyone makes false assumptions about theists cbayer Mar 2015 #205

Lol. Well said! hrmjustin Mar 2015 #206

If you are defined by your beliefs, Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2015 #208

I believe in the Incarnation, life, crucifixion, resurrection, and as ention of Jesus Christ. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #209

So you're a Universalist. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2015 #222

Episcopalian. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #223

OK. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2015 #226

Backsliding Presbyterian. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #228

There is no reason why we should show respect for any religion Starboard Tack Mar 2015 #175

Some religions (or part of) deserve disrespect Yorktown Mar 2015 #177

Is there something I said that you disagree with? Starboard Tack Mar 2015 #180

Understand first, then criticize. That's respect. Htom Sirveaux Mar 2015 #187

And if you understand perfectly well that something is horseshit skepticscott Mar 2015 #194

Respect to the substance of the idea, sure, but also potentially terrible communication, Htom Sirveaux Mar 2015 #195

I made the break awhile ago... Gloria Mar 2015 #207