Religion

TM99

(8,352 posts)

154. But that's the thing.

Thu Apr 2, 2015, 04:36 PM

Apr 2015

Outside of this weird Religion forum echo chamber, there really is not debate.

Strictly speaking cults are subsets of religion when discussing religions. Modern cults are not about religion, though it is a convenient way to manipulate people, but rather about psycho-social control. Nazism is cult but is not a religion.

Scientology when studied by religious scholars meets requirements to be considered a new religious movement. It does, however, meet many but not all requirements of social psychologists of exhibiting cult-like behavior with regards to its membership and culture.

It does not matter if some people say all religions are cults. They are wrong.

It does not matter if some people say that religions they don't like are cults. They are wrong too.

Personal opinion fueled by emotional certainty does not make that opinion always right.

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�Going Clear:� Scientology�s coverup efforts against the HBO documentary [View all] hrmjustin Mar 2015 OP

I want to see it... cbayer Mar 2015 #1

It was the most in dept documentary I ever saw on them. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #3

No one has dared to do this previously cbayer Mar 2015 #5

It shows the cowardice of the IRS, FBI, and prosecutors in this nation. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #6

Is this a cult? PassingFair Mar 2015 #53

From a picture? I can't make a judgement. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #54

What definition of cult are you using? cbayer Mar 2015 #55

I wasn't the one making the assertion, justin was. PassingFair Mar 2015 #62

As your wiki past shows, the word cult has had many iterations and cbayer Mar 2015 #64

Was I even talking to YOU? Justin said that Scientology was a cult, but not a religion. PassingFair Mar 2015 #65

No i am advocating that the abuses be investigated and prosecuted. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #66

Should this same standard be applied to all religions? PassingFair Mar 2015 #72

If there are allegations yes. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #74

Absolutely. The IRS has been flagrantly asleep at the wheel in terms of cbayer Mar 2015 #77

you are right Justin. samsingh Mar 2015 #95

Thanks. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #96

By your definition, the women you picture would be a cult. cbayer Mar 2015 #67

The women in the pic would probably still qualify. PassingFair Mar 2015 #70

Do you think the women would qualify for both definitions? cbayer Mar 2015 #75

Only by your private definition. okasha Apr 2015 #168

in cults members are not allowed to freely leave - either through force or shunning. samsingh Mar 2015 #84

So...Jehovah's Witnesses and groups like the Amish are cults? nt PassingFair Mar 2015 #97

POSSIBLY samsingh Mar 2015 #109

A group that makes people work for 40 cents an hour for movie starts, a group that NoJusticeNoPeace Apr 2015 #157

Who are they? Are we supposed to make such judgements based solely on appearance? stone space Mar 2015 #78

I looked them up, but I agree that just posting their picture and asking if they cbayer Mar 2015 #80

"Blue Cloister Cult" NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #167

i don't know. what do they believe in? samsingh Mar 2015 #83

Is that the knitting club? Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #172

Is there a predictable criteria by which one might reliably interpret whether hostile material about AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #25

I posted about it in entertainment, I dont like to post in religion. NoJusticeNoPeace Mar 2015 #2

Boycotting his movies is a good idea. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #4

I'll watch a Tom Cruise movie the day he stands next to a female lead without standing on a crate. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #26

I'll watch "Eyes Wide Shut" bvf Mar 2015 #28

They got their non-profit designation through sheer bullying. cbayer Mar 2015 #7

And here's the straw man! Lordquinton Mar 2015 #99

The churches have already gained their status by applying as non-profits. cbayer Mar 2015 #101

Yes, they file as 501 as a religious orginization Lordquinton Mar 2015 #104

The only "religious exemption" is in their needing to regularly file, and cbayer Mar 2015 #107

Religious organizations are tax-exempt as charitable orgs under IRS 501(c)3 regulations. pinto Mar 2015 #103

Scientology is a religion like any other. bvf Mar 2015 #8

The fact that they regularly abuse their members physically and emotionally. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #9

Do you donate money to your church? bvf Mar 2015 #10

Yes. I have to pledge to be a voting member. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #11

I see. bvf Mar 2015 #13

Although to be fair there is an option not to give money if you can't afford to. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #14

Wonderful. bvf Mar 2015 #18

Of course. We do a lot of outreach to the neighborhood. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #19

Which obviously you would be unable to do bvf Mar 2015 #27

No. We have secular agencies that do great work here. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #29

Good. So I assume 100% of your donations bvf Mar 2015 #30

No. My donations to my church go to upkeep, salaries, outreach, and grants. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #31

Wouldn't it be a more efficient use bvf Mar 2015 #33

You are assuming I don't give money to them. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #34

I'm assuming no such thing, bvf Mar 2015 #36

your points are not clear to me. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #37

But you specifically mentioned bvf Mar 2015 #41

Ok. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #42

Does your parish vote on the annual budget, Justin? okasha Apr 2015 #169

Yes. the vestry approves the budget and it is published for all to see. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #173

Who do you donate money to? You don't have to answer that because ... cbayer Mar 2015 #38

Asking a question is rude? bvf Mar 2015 #39

Ok, so who do you donate your money to? I'd like to look into whatever organizations cbayer Mar 2015 #40

That's none of your business. bvf Mar 2015 #43

My apologies. It is indeed none of my business. cbayer Mar 2015 #46

All religions have pockets of "abuse"...it comes with POWER PassingFair Mar 2015 #56

It is not a religion in my view. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #57

It is in the minds of the adherents... PassingFair Mar 2015 #58

Not in my mind. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #61

Yes I understand that. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #90

Then why did you post this in the Religion group? bvf Mar 2015 #88

Because some do consider it a religion. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #91

We discuss cults and non-religious groups here all the time. cbayer Mar 2015 #92

Right here, because it's a religion. bvf Mar 2015 #93

Sure all of those could be posted here, unless someone alerted and the host said no. cbayer Mar 2015 #94

"Where you have power, you will find abuses. " cbayer Mar 2015 #59

Oops. Sorry, I thought I was posting in the Religious Group. PassingFair Mar 2015 #60

You were and the ability to discern the differences between cbayer Mar 2015 #63

"Funny to see a religious non-believer only noting when it happens in religious groups." Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #98

Excuse me while I fight the impulse... gcomeau Apr 2015 #115

Go ahead. Why would you think that would bother me? hrmjustin Apr 2015 #117

Well, unless you also claim Catholicism isn't a religion... gcomeau Apr 2015 #118

I will apply any standard I want. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #119

Yes, clearly. And as inconsistently as you want too. -eom gcomeau Apr 2015 #122

Thank you for your permission. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #123

Oh it wasn't permission. gcomeau Apr 2015 #124

Nothing has been shown to me that this is nothing but a money making gimmick. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #125

Well I certainly won't be the one to do that... gcomeau Apr 2015 #126

There are certainly other gimmicks out there. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #127

You realize the Catholic Church is the single most valuable private entity on the planet right? AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #129

There is no question that the finances of the ch6rch deserves more scrutiny. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #130

But my point was more around clarifying AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #131

i think the RCC has problems but the religion itself is not a scam. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #133

Have you seen the movie? cbayer Mar 2015 #12

Wouldn't waste my time. bvf Mar 2015 #15

OK, I thought you had seen the movie and were basing your comments on that. cbayer Mar 2015 #20

No, I'm not. Don't have to. bvf Mar 2015 #24

I never understood angryvet Mar 2015 #16

I don't think they are allowed to check out non-approved news sources. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #17

They have tremendous expertise on identifying and preying on their targets. cbayer Mar 2015 #22

just another religion, no more idiotic or venal than the norm for the genre. nt. Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #21

They don't beat me in my church or send me to a hole. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #23

yes well scientology doesn't have a rep for pederasty either Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #32

I tend to think they are out of the norm and not a religion. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #35

yeah well how marvelously tolerant of you. Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #44

Spare me Warren! Spare me your judgements! hrmjustin Mar 2015 #45

Cool. You just judged all the believers in scientology as not religious but you don't wish to be Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #47

I have a problem with secretive and abusive belief sysems. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #48

Like the Vatican? Act_of_Reparation Mar 2015 #49

I have many issues with the vatican. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #50

So the RCC is also not a religion? Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #51

No they are a religion. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #52

well that is quite magnanimous of you Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #68

It was a gimmick by Hubbard. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #69

Christianity was a gimmick by Paul. Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #71

Warren I use my common sense. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #73

So you should self delete your op and repost it in GD. Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #76

You're funny. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #82

It was actually very funny, but, like the best of all humor AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #132

use your imagination. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #134

Assume I don't have one. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #135

You have one. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #137

I do, but it has so far not led me to anything that seems to satisfy the question. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #139

restate your question. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #140

This begs the question Alittleliberal Mar 2015 #79

All a matter of opinion. there are cults in mainstream religions. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #85

"you know it when you see it." Act_of_Reparation Mar 2015 #87

No it doesn't surprise me. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #89

Then perhaps it is worth pointing out that "you know it when you see it"... Act_of_Reparation Mar 2015 #105

And I care why? hrmjustin Mar 2015 #106

Why should you care what learned people think of the subject at hand? Act_of_Reparation Mar 2015 #110

thats nice. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #111

Is religion itself a cult. AlbertCat Apr 2015 #112

When i say cult I mean in the negative tone. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #113

Cults have tones? AlbertCat Apr 2015 #114

Everyone has an o9inion. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #116

Everyone has an o9inion. AlbertCat Apr 2015 #120

I don't find criticism outrageous. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #121

It started off as a Jewish sect, okasha Apr 2015 #170

OMG! The outrage! cleanhippie Apr 2015 #136

Enjoy you holiday weekend Cleanhippie! hrmjustin Apr 2015 #138

Thanks, I will. I've que'd every zombie movie and show I can find on Netflix to watch. cleanhippie Apr 2015 #141

Church tonight, tomorrow, Saturday, and Sunday. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #142

That sounds like loads of fun. Do you participate in any zombie festivities? cleanhippie Apr 2015 #143

I going to your house to eat your brains. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #144

Careful now, that's powerful medicine. cleanhippie Apr 2015 #145

I will chew slowly. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #146

Is there any other way to eat brains but slowly? cleanhippie Apr 2015 #147

We will be turning Jesus into a cocktail. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #148

That's a twist; the living eating the dead. cleanhippie Apr 2015 #149

We don't believe he is dead. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #150

Well, zombies aren't really dead. cleanhippie Apr 2015 #151

Have a great Sunday! hrmjustin Apr 2015 #161

Enjoy! hrmjustin Apr 2015 #162

This message was self-deleted by its author okasha Apr 2015 #171

scientologies rebuttal is cruel, stupid and classic attempts at diversion from the truth samsingh Mar 2015 #81

What do you think the longer term effect might be? cbayer Mar 2015 #86

100'th post! LostOne4Ever Mar 2015 #100

lol. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #102

It's probably an omen. cbayer Mar 2015 #108

That's risky, though. stone space Apr 2015 #128

One more time for those not paying attention. TM99 Apr 2015 #152

I find the whole cult vs. religion debate to be pretty useless. cbayer Apr 2015 #153

But that's the thing. TM99 Apr 2015 #154

I think there actually is debate outside this group. cbayer Apr 2015 #155

I disagree. TM99 Apr 2015 #156

Isn't saying that Scientology meets some of the requirements of a Cult, as defined today... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #158

No, and here is why. TM99 Apr 2015 #159

Neil deGrasse Tyson: If you believe in the Christian story of Jesus, AlbertCat Apr 2015 #160

He's really making the case for people being able to believe whatever they want. cbayer Apr 2015 #163

Oh, come on. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #165

I just watched the documentary. mnhtnbb Apr 2015 #164

I agree that many religious organizations, including scientology, need to be audited cbayer Apr 2015 #166