Religion

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)

33. Nobody is dismissing science, invoking woo. That's the trouble with the arguments I get here.

Thu Apr 2, 2015, 05:02 PM

Apr 2015

Because I chose to honor both religion and science, I'm assumed to be a member of some unnamed group and then all these associations are made or assumed.

I don't dismiss science, I am a practitioner of science. But that doesn't mean that I hold science in some special esteem.

Science is not infallible, and I'll call them on it when they fuck up. As long as humans are in the mix there will be fuck ups.

And I don't hold religions in any special esteem either; all the same opinions about their fallibility apply.

I embrace both worlds and for some reason that seems to offend people, cause them to jump in with insults and arguments when there's no argument being proposed.

There are many things in our experience that defy scientific and religious explanation.

Funny that a simple photo of a sunrise out my window one morning should evoke such reactions.

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Certain things make me think that there are great things well beyond science. [View all] NYC_SKP Apr 2015 OP

Nice straw man skepticscott Apr 2015 #1

No, actually. It's a sunrise, very nice, they usually aren't so colorful. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #2

And there will always be more things explained by science tomorrow skepticscott Apr 2015 #4

"intellectual pinata" adorable. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #11

was there an original idea somewhere? Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #12

Post removed Post removed Apr 2015 #19

There you go again, claiming I have nothing and yada yada. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #24

Science is a religion for some people Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #90

Yeah, because making up an invisible magic friend doesn't have anything to do with AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #93

It is called imagination Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #156

No it isn't. I imagine a lot ofshit hat isnt real. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #159

Well, I couldn't agree more with your header. Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #165

Ok, that's a less controversial claim. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #166

No argument there Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #169

Without that mechanism on the Religion side... AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #175

I would imagine it is useful to believers Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #178

Let me ask a different question then, instead. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #179

I have the same respect for gun owners as I do for believers, or anyone else Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #186

I've never seen you use these adjectives against believers. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #188

Talk about an alien mindset, I could never be incurious, that's a horror beyond imagining... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #99

"I could never be incurious, that's a horror beyond imagining..." F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #133

Exactly. My hunger to understand won't be filled until my body has assumed room temp. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #144

Well, we live and learn, don't we? Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #151

It seems rather obvious that science can assist us in finding the answers for everything that... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #158

"Testable" being the operative word Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #162

That's the crux of it, right there. okasha Apr 2015 #199

'Why' implies a motive intelligence, a designer that imparts purpose. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #160

"Science serves to investigate the how of things, while religion serves to answer the why" beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #167

Are you suggesting that science is based on reason? Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #176

I'm refuting your claim that that religion can answer questions that science can't. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #177

Maybe some people don't think the question is idiotic. Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #182

Knock it off. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #184

"both institutions are in the habit of making shit up when they don't have full explanations" Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #9

The best stuff can't be explained by science. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #13

whatever. You made a specific claim about "science" that was nonsense. nt. Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #14

That's odd. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #16

that ain't possible, because god. Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #17

No, not strange. Science and Faith aren't mutually exclusive, not for me. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #22

That's interesting. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #23

To me, there's no need to ascribe supernatual explanations to thinks that have natural explanations. Arugula Latte Apr 2015 #31

Yep, the universe is just as vast and wonderful without dismissing science and/or invoking woo. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #26

how characteristic of Sagan to brand science as characteristically human guillaumeb Apr 2015 #32

. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #34

You have to admit, Carl Sagan is representative of a subset of members of the scientific community. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #39

Right. We're not humble like you. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #40

true guillaumeb Apr 2015 #44

Ah yes, Carl Sagan, another militant atheist. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #53

not militant just rude and self important guillaumeb Apr 2015 #67

You don't know anything about Carl Sagan. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #69

can he be judged by his words? guillaumeb Apr 2015 #71

They are falling all over themselves because they're toast, no logical defense exists. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #130

Ah, declaring victory. The 7th and final stage of denial. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #145

Just because you don't know about something, doesn't mean everyone's ignorant of it. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #95

Nobody is dismissing science, invoking woo. That's the trouble with the arguments I get here. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #33

"And both institutions are in the habit of making shit up when they don't have full explanations." beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #36

If you don't know this to be true then you need more exposure to the institution. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #43

"Making shit up is at the core of scientific inquiry." beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #48

I know, that was a good one, wasn't it? NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #55

No, it was pretty ridiculous actually. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #60

In fact, the current climate denialist talking points Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #62

Yes, exactly. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #65

That poster is known for posting RWTP as some deep insight Lordquinton Apr 2015 #89

Nothing about what I'm saying is anything like Republican rhetoric. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #117

You have thus far failed to support your claim. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #161

"You guys just can't stand it when I make a valid point" beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #173

I know man, Babies. When will science figure them out? Lordquinton Apr 2015 #88

But you sting like a bee... Woot. haikugal Apr 2015 #101

It is beyond the pale, no? beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #181

It's an amazing display... haikugal Apr 2015 #185

for many people there can never be middle ground guillaumeb Apr 2015 #37

"Just as the intolerant religious types brand science as the enemy of faith." Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #42

bizarre but funny guillaumeb Apr 2015 #45

Only as bizarre as the false equivalencies you've made. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #49

my claim was not posed as an absolute guillaumeb Apr 2015 #50

That's an impressive steaming pile you've dropped there. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #104

What, exactly, has religion proved to be true? ret5hd Apr 2015 #56

apple pie? guillaumeb Apr 2015 #68

Probability can do that. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #163

advertisers do much the same thing guillaumeb Apr 2015 #191

Oh, we most definitely disagree. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #192

even words like truth must be defined guillaumeb Apr 2015 #193

I just want to know what is, under definition 1. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #194

I personally agree with number 1 guillaumeb Apr 2015 #195

Problem is, that noise intrudes into my life. Hurts people i care about. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #196

you have my sympathy for that guillaumeb Apr 2015 #198

"There is no scientific explanation for the emotional response." AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #59

is the reverse provable? guillaumeb Apr 2015 #70

yes edhopper Apr 2015 #73

"Just cause you don't know something, doesn't mean nobody else does." beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #75

and to you edhopper Apr 2015 #77

what I was talking about, apparently not clearly, guillaumeb Apr 2015 #78

That's fine edhopper Apr 2015 #81

I've never met two people with perfectly overlapping music preferences right down to the AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #83

And it isn't cross cultural, either. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #102

Exactly. And Microsoft chose E Dorian for the Halo 3 soundtrack/promotions, very carefully. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #105

And let's not forget the four chord pop song Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #112

I can't hear that at work, but I'm going to bet it's something similar-ish to this: F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #134

Pretty much. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #139

It absolutely is. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #143

I record and produce from my home studio. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #148

Very cool. Are there any recordings of your stuff out there you'd like to share? F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #152

I'll have to dig around. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #154

Thanks! F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #155

No wonder okasha Apr 2015 #197

Fucking GLORIOUS. Thank you for that. I've never seen it. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #147

Then you'll probably like this one, too Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #149

Not true edhopper Apr 2015 #63

Uhm, the emotional response would be subjective to the person in question... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #122

yes guillaumeb Apr 2015 #137

No scientific explanation for how music effects us? Lordquinton Apr 2015 #138

I don't think that the photo of a sunrise was the problem here. Curmudgeoness Apr 2015 #114

It's true that I was deliberately vague in the OP. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #116

Sunrises and Sunsets give clues to AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #140

We both know that science has not found all the answers, Curmudgeoness Apr 2015 #157

I agree, being beyond current scientific knowledge isn't meant mean shall never be explainable. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #170

That's odd, since science also tells us the universe is vast and unlimited. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #28

Here ya go: Arugula Latte Apr 2015 #30

Oh, you're such a buzzkill! NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #51

I don't go into baby talk mode with human children. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #57

Well, baby animal cuteness is an evolutionarily desirable trait... Arugula Latte Apr 2015 #58

That's exactly what I think. If babies weren't cute we might not like them so much. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #120

That one's a beauty compared to newly-hatched hummingbirds. okasha Apr 2015 #200

! beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #74

Mr. White approves! Arugula Latte Apr 2015 #76

there will always be things that cannot be explained by science or religion. AlbertCat Apr 2015 #190

I think there is much we don't understand or know, and I'm not willing cbayer Apr 2015 #3

And of course, the more science learns, the more mysterious it gets. 10-dimension theory, villager Apr 2015 #5

I agree. Every time science opens a door, you find 10 more doors that are closed. cbayer Apr 2015 #6

I do. Time travel for young readers (mostly, so far) villager Apr 2015 #8

That is great! I loved those kinds of books as a kid. cbayer Apr 2015 #10

Well, its a fancy term for "eBooks" villager Apr 2015 #15

Not everything has to be practical... cbayer Apr 2015 #18

Of course, no one claims that it does skepticscott Apr 2015 #21

I have a book titled, "A Primer of Higher Space". I wonder if it would interest you. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #20

Great cover! Thanks for those links! villager Apr 2015 #27

I have a rifle from the same year. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #29

Reminds me of Ouspensky bananas Apr 2015 #41

One of my friends got expelled from school partly because we were into Gurdjief and Ouspensky Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #66

Absolutely! nt bananas Apr 2015 #7

Why does there need to be something 'beyond' what it appears to be? AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #25

Every person will have a different "take away". NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #38

Well, from my perspective AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #52

Actually, a greater understanding of the details of what you are looking at with awe Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #64

I wholeheartedly agree. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #96

Science informs. Art inspires. Binkie The Clown Apr 2015 #35

I agree with you and also swing in different directions with respect to opinions... NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #46

Art and non-fundamentalist religion require a high tolerance for uncertainty. okasha Apr 2015 #91

I thrive on uncertainty. Binkie The Clown Apr 2015 #92

but Science does have very good explanations edhopper Apr 2015 #47

I agree. And, I never mentioned a need for "belief" or "faith" or "religion".... NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #54

Okay edhopper Apr 2015 #61

I break it down differently. It's the real, and the make believe. immoderate Apr 2015 #72

That's an interesting way to put it. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #115

And I think it's no coincidence... immoderate Apr 2015 #124

Not to mention we evolved on this planet, our monkey ancestors, thanks to their wide, varied... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #128

I think this is related to the hard problem of consciousness. Htom Sirveaux Apr 2015 #79

Well said. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #80

Uhm, how are any of these things beyond science? Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #82

If you right click on the little icon of the picture, then choose view image ... Jim__ Apr 2015 #84

Seems completely broken to me, doesn't even give me that option, probably my web browser acting up. Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #86

Not a bad picture for an iPhone, eh? NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #97

Imagination. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #85

Uhm, Imagination is a product of our brains... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #87

That's quite an assumption you're making. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #94

Its the only assumption we have supporting evidence for, as far as the how... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #98

I need to correct you on an important matter: NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #100

You said "Science can only guess how that works." AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #107

You are the one making sweeping proclamations on the limitations of science... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #118

Gee, lighten up! I love me some science, and we'll always be researching. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #121

Can you give an example of ONE thing that can't be examined by science that isn't... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #126

"can't be examined by science" is not a criteria I'm using here. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #135

Saying something defies scientific explanation is claiming just that... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #153

No, this is actually known. And it's funny you mention magnetic fields. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #106

Please say this is some kind of attempt at satire... gcomeau Apr 2015 #110

I once read that dramatic sun rises and sun sets are the result of air pollution. notadmblnd Apr 2015 #103

Any particulate matter suspended in the atmosphere will contribute because it scatters light. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #108

Yes... gcomeau Apr 2015 #109

Science cannot and never will be able to explain babies. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #111

What the fuck are you *talking* about? Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #113

You have nothing more than a theory about that, how very sad. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #119

Theory is the best there is in science, Jesus, who are we talking to, Young Earth Creationists? n/t Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #123

The electrical activity that makes up thought can be measured and understood. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #125

It's replies like yours that make me think maybe science IS a religion. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #127

Then you neither understand science or religion. n/t Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #129

Your one-sentence post perfectly sums up this entire thread! n/t trotsky Apr 2015 #171

The word 'religion' does not exist in my reply. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #136

That was very kind of you. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #150

And you don't need to be a neuroscientist to make sense of this. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #146

How very sad you don't know what "theory" means in science. gcomeau Apr 2015 #141

"Nothing more than a theory" Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #142

The waves come in, the waves go out... haikugal Apr 2015 #189

A little quibble. ananda Apr 2015 #131

No doubt that science is there. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #132

"Science wouldn't be very interesting if everything was known and understood." AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #164

Really? You actually need for this to be explained? OK then... NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #168

That doesn't follow. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #174

You could be right, you could be wrong. trotsky Apr 2015 #172

Oh, I don't know about that. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #180

It's good to see you have clarified your initial stance. trotsky Apr 2015 #183

There's got to be some truth in that. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #187