Religion

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)

35. Science informs. Art inspires.

Thu Apr 2, 2015, 05:07 PM

Apr 2015

I love science. I love art and music. I enjoy the emotions that rise up in the experience of great art and evocative music. I don't really care if science can "explain" them or not. They are beyond science.

Then, a day or a week later, I'm just as likely to be doing a mathematical analysis of Mozart melody lines trying to coax out what equations best describe beauty in music. Then I am convinced that science can explain beauty, and that I can program a computer to create beauty.

So speaking from Phase II (where I happen to reside at the moment) "compassion" has a very significant positive survival value for the tribe/community, and therefore, for the species. That we feel it is the result of those who didn't feel it not surviving.

So I'm ambivalent. That's part of being human. I embrace my fundamental nature and let it go at that. And when the science becomes too tedious, I let myself be swept away by Beethoven.

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Certain things make me think that there are great things well beyond science. [View all] NYC_SKP Apr 2015 OP

Nice straw man skepticscott Apr 2015 #1

No, actually. It's a sunrise, very nice, they usually aren't so colorful. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #2

And there will always be more things explained by science tomorrow skepticscott Apr 2015 #4

"intellectual pinata" adorable. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #11

was there an original idea somewhere? Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #12

Post removed Post removed Apr 2015 #19

There you go again, claiming I have nothing and yada yada. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #24

Science is a religion for some people Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #90

Yeah, because making up an invisible magic friend doesn't have anything to do with AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #93

It is called imagination Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #156

No it isn't. I imagine a lot ofshit hat isnt real. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #159

Well, I couldn't agree more with your header. Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #165

Ok, that's a less controversial claim. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #166

No argument there Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #169

Without that mechanism on the Religion side... AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #175

I would imagine it is useful to believers Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #178

Let me ask a different question then, instead. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #179

I have the same respect for gun owners as I do for believers, or anyone else Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #186

I've never seen you use these adjectives against believers. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #188

Talk about an alien mindset, I could never be incurious, that's a horror beyond imagining... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #99

"I could never be incurious, that's a horror beyond imagining..." F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #133

Exactly. My hunger to understand won't be filled until my body has assumed room temp. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #144

Well, we live and learn, don't we? Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #151

It seems rather obvious that science can assist us in finding the answers for everything that... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #158

"Testable" being the operative word Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #162

That's the crux of it, right there. okasha Apr 2015 #199

'Why' implies a motive intelligence, a designer that imparts purpose. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #160

"Science serves to investigate the how of things, while religion serves to answer the why" beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #167

Are you suggesting that science is based on reason? Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #176

I'm refuting your claim that that religion can answer questions that science can't. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #177

Maybe some people don't think the question is idiotic. Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #182

Knock it off. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #184

"both institutions are in the habit of making shit up when they don't have full explanations" Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #9

The best stuff can't be explained by science. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #13

whatever. You made a specific claim about "science" that was nonsense. nt. Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #14

That's odd. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #16

that ain't possible, because god. Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #17

No, not strange. Science and Faith aren't mutually exclusive, not for me. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #22

That's interesting. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #23

To me, there's no need to ascribe supernatual explanations to thinks that have natural explanations. Arugula Latte Apr 2015 #31

Yep, the universe is just as vast and wonderful without dismissing science and/or invoking woo. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #26

how characteristic of Sagan to brand science as characteristically human guillaumeb Apr 2015 #32

. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #34

You have to admit, Carl Sagan is representative of a subset of members of the scientific community. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #39

Right. We're not humble like you. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #40

true guillaumeb Apr 2015 #44

Ah yes, Carl Sagan, another militant atheist. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #53

not militant just rude and self important guillaumeb Apr 2015 #67

You don't know anything about Carl Sagan. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #69

can he be judged by his words? guillaumeb Apr 2015 #71

They are falling all over themselves because they're toast, no logical defense exists. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #130

Ah, declaring victory. The 7th and final stage of denial. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #145

Just because you don't know about something, doesn't mean everyone's ignorant of it. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #95

Nobody is dismissing science, invoking woo. That's the trouble with the arguments I get here. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #33

"And both institutions are in the habit of making shit up when they don't have full explanations." beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #36

If you don't know this to be true then you need more exposure to the institution. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #43

"Making shit up is at the core of scientific inquiry." beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #48

I know, that was a good one, wasn't it? NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #55

No, it was pretty ridiculous actually. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #60

In fact, the current climate denialist talking points Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #62

Yes, exactly. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #65

That poster is known for posting RWTP as some deep insight Lordquinton Apr 2015 #89

Nothing about what I'm saying is anything like Republican rhetoric. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #117

You have thus far failed to support your claim. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #161

"You guys just can't stand it when I make a valid point" beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #173

I know man, Babies. When will science figure them out? Lordquinton Apr 2015 #88

But you sting like a bee... Woot. haikugal Apr 2015 #101

It is beyond the pale, no? beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #181

It's an amazing display... haikugal Apr 2015 #185

for many people there can never be middle ground guillaumeb Apr 2015 #37

"Just as the intolerant religious types brand science as the enemy of faith." Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #42

bizarre but funny guillaumeb Apr 2015 #45

Only as bizarre as the false equivalencies you've made. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #49

my claim was not posed as an absolute guillaumeb Apr 2015 #50

That's an impressive steaming pile you've dropped there. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #104

What, exactly, has religion proved to be true? ret5hd Apr 2015 #56

apple pie? guillaumeb Apr 2015 #68

Probability can do that. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #163

advertisers do much the same thing guillaumeb Apr 2015 #191

Oh, we most definitely disagree. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #192

even words like truth must be defined guillaumeb Apr 2015 #193

I just want to know what is, under definition 1. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #194

I personally agree with number 1 guillaumeb Apr 2015 #195

Problem is, that noise intrudes into my life. Hurts people i care about. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #196

you have my sympathy for that guillaumeb Apr 2015 #198

"There is no scientific explanation for the emotional response." AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #59

is the reverse provable? guillaumeb Apr 2015 #70

yes edhopper Apr 2015 #73

"Just cause you don't know something, doesn't mean nobody else does." beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #75

and to you edhopper Apr 2015 #77

what I was talking about, apparently not clearly, guillaumeb Apr 2015 #78

That's fine edhopper Apr 2015 #81

I've never met two people with perfectly overlapping music preferences right down to the AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #83

And it isn't cross cultural, either. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #102

Exactly. And Microsoft chose E Dorian for the Halo 3 soundtrack/promotions, very carefully. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #105

And let's not forget the four chord pop song Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #112

I can't hear that at work, but I'm going to bet it's something similar-ish to this: F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #134

Pretty much. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #139

It absolutely is. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #143

I record and produce from my home studio. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #148

Very cool. Are there any recordings of your stuff out there you'd like to share? F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #152

I'll have to dig around. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #154

Thanks! F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #155

No wonder okasha Apr 2015 #197

Fucking GLORIOUS. Thank you for that. I've never seen it. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #147

Then you'll probably like this one, too Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #149

Not true edhopper Apr 2015 #63

Uhm, the emotional response would be subjective to the person in question... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #122

yes guillaumeb Apr 2015 #137

No scientific explanation for how music effects us? Lordquinton Apr 2015 #138

I don't think that the photo of a sunrise was the problem here. Curmudgeoness Apr 2015 #114

It's true that I was deliberately vague in the OP. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #116

Sunrises and Sunsets give clues to AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #140

We both know that science has not found all the answers, Curmudgeoness Apr 2015 #157

I agree, being beyond current scientific knowledge isn't meant mean shall never be explainable. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #170

That's odd, since science also tells us the universe is vast and unlimited. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #28

Here ya go: Arugula Latte Apr 2015 #30

Oh, you're such a buzzkill! NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #51

I don't go into baby talk mode with human children. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #57

Well, baby animal cuteness is an evolutionarily desirable trait... Arugula Latte Apr 2015 #58

That's exactly what I think. If babies weren't cute we might not like them so much. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #120

That one's a beauty compared to newly-hatched hummingbirds. okasha Apr 2015 #200

! beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #74

Mr. White approves! Arugula Latte Apr 2015 #76

there will always be things that cannot be explained by science or religion. AlbertCat Apr 2015 #190

I think there is much we don't understand or know, and I'm not willing cbayer Apr 2015 #3

And of course, the more science learns, the more mysterious it gets. 10-dimension theory, villager Apr 2015 #5

I agree. Every time science opens a door, you find 10 more doors that are closed. cbayer Apr 2015 #6

I do. Time travel for young readers (mostly, so far) villager Apr 2015 #8

That is great! I loved those kinds of books as a kid. cbayer Apr 2015 #10

Well, its a fancy term for "eBooks" villager Apr 2015 #15

Not everything has to be practical... cbayer Apr 2015 #18

Of course, no one claims that it does skepticscott Apr 2015 #21

I have a book titled, "A Primer of Higher Space". I wonder if it would interest you. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #20

Great cover! Thanks for those links! villager Apr 2015 #27

I have a rifle from the same year. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #29

Reminds me of Ouspensky bananas Apr 2015 #41

One of my friends got expelled from school partly because we were into Gurdjief and Ouspensky Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #66

Absolutely! nt bananas Apr 2015 #7

Why does there need to be something 'beyond' what it appears to be? AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #25

Every person will have a different "take away". NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #38

Well, from my perspective AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #52

Actually, a greater understanding of the details of what you are looking at with awe Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #64

I wholeheartedly agree. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #96

Science informs. Art inspires. Binkie The Clown Apr 2015 #35

I agree with you and also swing in different directions with respect to opinions... NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #46

Art and non-fundamentalist religion require a high tolerance for uncertainty. okasha Apr 2015 #91

I thrive on uncertainty. Binkie The Clown Apr 2015 #92

but Science does have very good explanations edhopper Apr 2015 #47

I agree. And, I never mentioned a need for "belief" or "faith" or "religion".... NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #54

Okay edhopper Apr 2015 #61

I break it down differently. It's the real, and the make believe. immoderate Apr 2015 #72

That's an interesting way to put it. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #115

And I think it's no coincidence... immoderate Apr 2015 #124

Not to mention we evolved on this planet, our monkey ancestors, thanks to their wide, varied... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #128

I think this is related to the hard problem of consciousness. Htom Sirveaux Apr 2015 #79

Well said. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #80

Uhm, how are any of these things beyond science? Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #82

If you right click on the little icon of the picture, then choose view image ... Jim__ Apr 2015 #84

Seems completely broken to me, doesn't even give me that option, probably my web browser acting up. Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #86

Not a bad picture for an iPhone, eh? NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #97

Imagination. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #85

Uhm, Imagination is a product of our brains... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #87

That's quite an assumption you're making. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #94

Its the only assumption we have supporting evidence for, as far as the how... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #98

I need to correct you on an important matter: NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #100

You said "Science can only guess how that works." AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #107

You are the one making sweeping proclamations on the limitations of science... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #118

Gee, lighten up! I love me some science, and we'll always be researching. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #121

Can you give an example of ONE thing that can't be examined by science that isn't... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #126

"can't be examined by science" is not a criteria I'm using here. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #135

Saying something defies scientific explanation is claiming just that... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #153

No, this is actually known. And it's funny you mention magnetic fields. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #106

Please say this is some kind of attempt at satire... gcomeau Apr 2015 #110

I once read that dramatic sun rises and sun sets are the result of air pollution. notadmblnd Apr 2015 #103

Any particulate matter suspended in the atmosphere will contribute because it scatters light. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #108

Yes... gcomeau Apr 2015 #109

Science cannot and never will be able to explain babies. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #111

What the fuck are you *talking* about? Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #113

You have nothing more than a theory about that, how very sad. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #119

Theory is the best there is in science, Jesus, who are we talking to, Young Earth Creationists? n/t Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #123

The electrical activity that makes up thought can be measured and understood. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #125

It's replies like yours that make me think maybe science IS a religion. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #127

Then you neither understand science or religion. n/t Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #129

Your one-sentence post perfectly sums up this entire thread! n/t trotsky Apr 2015 #171

The word 'religion' does not exist in my reply. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #136

That was very kind of you. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #150

And you don't need to be a neuroscientist to make sense of this. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #146

How very sad you don't know what "theory" means in science. gcomeau Apr 2015 #141

"Nothing more than a theory" Act_of_Reparation Apr 2015 #142

The waves come in, the waves go out... haikugal Apr 2015 #189

A little quibble. ananda Apr 2015 #131

No doubt that science is there. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #132

"Science wouldn't be very interesting if everything was known and understood." AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #164

Really? You actually need for this to be explained? OK then... NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #168

That doesn't follow. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #174

You could be right, you could be wrong. trotsky Apr 2015 #172

Oh, I don't know about that. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #180

It's good to see you have clarified your initial stance. trotsky Apr 2015 #183

There's got to be some truth in that. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #187