Religion

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)

51. I said I think there would be a record

Tue May 12, 2015, 12:26 AM

May 2015

And if it were recorded by a historian, a Roman historian (historians that recorded history would be valid also- or tell me why it wouldn't) then, it would be evidence that Jesus existed.

You asserted- that Romans recorded no crucifixions (and challenged me to prove they did) and implied that therefore not having a written record of Jesus trial and execution is not proof he didn't exist. Which by the way- I never asserted.

I just wanted to make that clear to you.

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Did the Jesus in the New Testament exist? [View all] edhopper May 2015 OP

Yes. hrmjustin May 2015 #1

I don't think that's anyone's 'real' question. elleng May 2015 #2

No smiley May 2015 #3

christians and their churches will tell you yes notadmblnd May 2015 #4

This is the correct answer. longship May 2015 #8

I agree. I think the Romans would have kept records. notadmblnd May 2015 #9

Of what? okasha May 2015 #21

of his trial and execution notadmblnd May 2015 #24

Crassus crucified 3000 captives along the Apian Way okasha May 2015 #31

Jesus was not killed in a battle of war notadmblnd May 2015 #35

Neither were the thousands crucified by Crassus and Titus. okasha May 2015 #36

so that shows edhopper May 2015 #39

No. okasha May 2015 #45

I said I think there would be a record notadmblnd May 2015 #51

Not to split hairs here... Act_of_Reparation May 2015 #184

Who is this US of which you speak? notadmblnd May 2015 #40

The readers of this thread.No need to get defensive. okasha May 2015 #42

No, I don't notadmblnd May 2015 #43

I haven't made any assertions, only asked for a source for yours. okasha May 2015 #44

Yes you did. notadmblnd May 2015 #46

No, I didn't. okasha May 2015 #47

Oh. it was your pal notadmblnd May 2015 #49

And I gave you a source. notadmblnd May 2015 #48

I am not asking you for a reference in a general history. okasha May 2015 #50

That's what you read into it. notadmblnd May 2015 #52

Then let's clarify. okasha May 2015 #171

But these are only arguments edhopper May 2015 #177

links? notadmblnd May 2015 #178

You gave the pertinent references yourself. okasha May 2015 #180

that's right I did notadmblnd May 2015 #181

Very nice cut and paste. okasha May 2015 #182

yeah, so? notadmblnd May 2015 #183

This message was self-deleted by its author notadmblnd May 2015 #53

Worst argument I've seen on DU today. doxyluv13 May 2015 #152

See post 171. okasha May 2015 #172

Anything significant Major Nikon May 2015 #175

Significant with a few centuries'hindsight. okasha May 2015 #179

There was a Roman presence in all of these areas Major Nikon May 2015 #185

He sounded very progressive in his day 99% who today claim to be Conservatives would hate his guts. gordianot May 2015 #5

Did Christians exist in the first century CE? rug May 2015 #6

Some debate about that, that is when what I like to call mumbo jumbo started up. gordianot May 2015 #7

Did Mormons exist in the 19th Century? edhopper May 2015 #10

Did Joseph Smith exist? rug May 2015 #11

so you missed the point edhopper May 2015 #12

Not at all. Let me sharpen it for you. rug May 2015 #13

you seem to think edhopper May 2015 #15

"Did the Jesus in the New Testament exist?" rug May 2015 #16

so the central question edhopper May 2015 #19

It is fascinating. And it's been done. The message is far more fascinating. rug May 2015 #20

so you have edhopper May 2015 #25

I've read enough. If there is anything new I'll read it. rug May 2015 #26

I will leave it at that edhopper May 2015 #28

Just as well. Snarky retorts tend to result in snarky retorts. rug May 2015 #32

To be fair, he/she only said they would dwell on the message, not practice it. notadmblnd May 2015 #54

Did Descartes exist? Or did he just *think* he did? (Sorry--couldn't resist.) tblue37 May 2015 #151

If I stop thinking about it, will I die? rug May 2015 #164

Apparently, but who knows? longship May 2015 #14

There was one jewish guru called Yeshua Yorktown May 2015 #17

I can only add edhopper May 2015 #22

Sorry, I was inattentive. Yes, absolutely, Mark. Yorktown May 2015 #34

More importantly, was any "real" Jesus anything like skepticscott May 2015 #18

Speaking of pseudo-intellectuals, what is described is not magic. rug May 2015 #29

Then what is edhopper May 2015 #41

It all makes for a remarkable show delrem May 2015 #57

Here: rug May 2015 #60

Some care if the very basis of a religion edhopper May 2015 #64

That's a shallow, simplistic - and wrong - conclusion. rug May 2015 #67

Not a bad explaination Major Nikon May 2015 #176

It's not? phil89 May 2015 #58

I see scottie is not alone. rug May 2015 #61

Short answer, all the NT magic appeared with the texts. No reports at the time. Yorktown May 2015 #38

The most damning evidence in that vein in my mind... gcomeau May 2015 #165

Plus the fact not ONE version of the resurrection agrees with another Yorktown May 2015 #168

Yep, not even close to agreeing with each other. -eom gcomeau May 2015 #169

Don't be ridiculous. Of course not. Might as well ask if Paul Bunyon really existed. n/t Binkie The Clown May 2015 #23

Bt he said that's not what he's asking. rug May 2015 #27

But if he didn't have the magic powers, who was he? immoderate May 2015 #37

For starters, not a magician. rug May 2015 #62

Word games. immoderate May 2015 #66

Words are not games. rug May 2015 #68

And the game takes us to the question: immoderate May 2015 #71

If not, he was an interesting passing figure. rug May 2015 #73

A nobody who was euhemerized*. immoderate May 2015 #79

If you mean euphemism, rug May 2015 #81

No. I say what I mean. And I mean what I say. immoderate May 2015 #85

Ok, Popeye. Thanks for a new word. rug May 2015 #86

OK. So then, who was he? immoderate May 2015 #87

He is who he said he is. rug May 2015 #88

Perhaps to you. If you eliminate the superhero in the book, who have you got? immoderate May 2015 #89

And not to you. So what? rug May 2015 #90

If you skip the magic, he doesn't eclipse King Lear, or Gilgamesh... immoderate May 2015 #91

I would have thought Grendel was your standard. rug May 2015 #130

He's asking if the Biblical Jesus, in other words, Binkie The Clown May 2015 #56

The question is correct. rug May 2015 #63

You can characterize edhopper May 2015 #65

Repeating yourself does not make you correct on the third or fourth repetition. rug May 2015 #69

Nor you edhopper May 2015 #98

The ability to distinguish difference is a sign of intelligence. rug May 2015 #104

distinguish difference is a sign of intelligence. The converse is also true. AlbertCat May 2015 #109

QED rug May 2015 #112

And obsessing over a difference edhopper May 2015 #111

Obsessing over something that doesn't exist is downtright peculiar. rug May 2015 #113

are you being edhopper May 2015 #116

Ironical AlbertCat May 2015 #149

I might go with.. NeoGreen May 2015 #155

Obsessing over something that doesn't exist is downtright peculiar. AlbertCat May 2015 #150

I was thinking edhopper May 2015 #158

And there's people in India Binkie The Clown May 2015 #100

If youre referring to TM.that has been investigated. rug May 2015 #106

No, not TM. This goes way back, long before the TM craze. Binkie The Clown May 2015 #108

I see lots of infantilism going on in here. rug May 2015 #114

It's more like the one thing the Wise Men can agree on Leontius May 2015 #117

Infantilism? Like beliefs grounded in tall tales told by parental figures? Yorktown May 2015 #119

Case in point . . . . rug May 2015 #120

Acting superior isn't a sound talking point. Yorktown May 2015 #122

It just seems that way when I respond to you. rug May 2015 #123

Do tell me what 'case in point' meant then. Yorktown May 2015 #124

case in point rug May 2015 #126

Thank you, I knew that. Yorktown May 2015 #127

Oh, it was said in the most literal sense. rug May 2015 #128

Explain what you think you meant Yorktown May 2015 #129

No edhopper May 2015 #131

I like beans. Binkie The Clown May 2015 #141

what kind? edhopper May 2015 #147

All kinds, really. Binkie The Clown May 2015 #153

Ah edhopper May 2015 #157

The reason for the word supernatural is ignorance. Yorktown May 2015 #121

You have unwittingly stumbled upon an epistemological point. rug May 2015 #125

I won't waste time on epistemology. Show me some supernatural. Yorktown May 2015 #133

You know what you know and that's all there is to it. rug May 2015 #136

No. I politely asked you to show some supernatural. Yorktown May 2015 #140

"I won't waste time on epistemology." rug May 2015 #142

No. Show me proof of the supernatural, not words of epistemology Yorktown May 2015 #144

PS: how do you know unicorns do not exist? Yorktown May 2015 #134

Easy-peasey. Unicorns have specific physical attributes and properties. rug May 2015 #137

You still haven't demonstrated the inexistence of unicorns. Yorktown May 2015 #139

Let's assume there was a man by that name edhopper May 2015 #30

I like the Jesus in the book, Lamb by Christopher Moore kimbutgar May 2015 #33

Too bad the bible Jesus phil89 May 2015 #59

I've always been fascinated by the need for the Christian religions to promulgate a myth. Maedhros May 2015 #55

yes Leontius May 2015 #72

Do you mean "Yes, I agree" or "Yes, Jesus' message would be less true"? [n/t] Maedhros May 2015 #74

yes, the message would be less true Leontius May 2015 #75

I'm interested in your take on that. Maedhros May 2015 #76

There is one essential truth that cannot be ignored Leontius May 2015 #92

I recognize that it is your truth, and I can respect your acceptance of it. Maedhros May 2015 #93

We don't disagree on the value of the teachings or their truth Leontius May 2015 #97

"Love one another." Maedhros May 2015 #105

Simple yes. Easy, not so much for many. Leontius May 2015 #107

Indeed, many Christians struggle mightily with that. trotsky May 2015 #161

It's a long Christian tradition edhopper May 2015 #163

It's a hard thing being human isn't it Leontius May 2015 #166

Yes I see a lot of that from so-called Christians. trotsky May 2015 #167

Jews ignore that. trotsky May 2015 #95

Everyone has a choice to make Leontius May 2015 #99

I notice you didn't answer the question. trotsky May 2015 #132

Except that whole salvation thing. phil89 May 2015 #78

Like I said, promulgation of myth. Maedhros May 2015 #80

I tie that to the view of some Christians that atheists must be immoral Jackpine Radical May 2015 #84

I see it as an enforcement measure. Maedhros May 2015 #94

I'm sorry, but Jackpine Radical May 2015 #96

What difference would it make. cbayer May 2015 #70

None to you edhopper May 2015 #101

The question was sincere. cbayer May 2015 #110

ask a Christian edhopper May 2015 #115

Do you think you "win" if you can somehow prove that the historical cbayer May 2015 #145

it's not about whether historical Jesus existed edhopper May 2015 #146

You are asking if Truth matters. Yorktown May 2015 #118

The Jesus I read about in the gospels upaloopa May 2015 #77

Maybe. Jackpine Radical May 2015 #82

Scholar Bart Ehrman believes he existed deutsey May 2015 #83

Does his existence edhopper May 2015 #103

Well, you have to understand what the Gospels are deutsey May 2015 #135

That explanation is too vague Yorktown May 2015 #143

you would think that would be edhopper May 2015 #148

I think it's not an either/or proposition, personally deutsey May 2015 #154

Thanks for the thoughtful edhopper May 2015 #159

You're correct deutsey May 2015 #160

They did indeed edhopper May 2015 #162

Did the Gospels writers invent? Did they know they were not factual? Yorktown May 2015 #170

That's a good question deutsey May 2015 #174

That's an excellent summary. okasha May 2015 #173

It isnt important to me if he lived or not. What is important to me is randys1 May 2015 #102

I vote no rurallib May 2015 #138

There may have been... NeoGreen May 2015 #156