Religion

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)

55. I've always been fascinated by the need for the Christian religions to promulgate a myth.

Tue May 12, 2015, 02:47 AM

May 2015

If the message of the New Testament is valid, it doesn't matter if Jesus actually existed or not. All the unlikely stories of walking on water, feeding multitudes with a few loaves and fishes, and raising Lazarus from the dead are unnecessary

Were Jesus just some ordinary guy, would his message somehow be less true?

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Did the Jesus in the New Testament exist? [View all] edhopper May 2015 OP

Yes. hrmjustin May 2015 #1

I don't think that's anyone's 'real' question. elleng May 2015 #2

No smiley May 2015 #3

christians and their churches will tell you yes notadmblnd May 2015 #4

This is the correct answer. longship May 2015 #8

I agree. I think the Romans would have kept records. notadmblnd May 2015 #9

Of what? okasha May 2015 #21

of his trial and execution notadmblnd May 2015 #24

Crassus crucified 3000 captives along the Apian Way okasha May 2015 #31

Jesus was not killed in a battle of war notadmblnd May 2015 #35

Neither were the thousands crucified by Crassus and Titus. okasha May 2015 #36

so that shows edhopper May 2015 #39

No. okasha May 2015 #45

I said I think there would be a record notadmblnd May 2015 #51

Not to split hairs here... Act_of_Reparation May 2015 #184

Who is this US of which you speak? notadmblnd May 2015 #40

The readers of this thread.No need to get defensive. okasha May 2015 #42

No, I don't notadmblnd May 2015 #43

I haven't made any assertions, only asked for a source for yours. okasha May 2015 #44

Yes you did. notadmblnd May 2015 #46

No, I didn't. okasha May 2015 #47

Oh. it was your pal notadmblnd May 2015 #49

And I gave you a source. notadmblnd May 2015 #48

I am not asking you for a reference in a general history. okasha May 2015 #50

That's what you read into it. notadmblnd May 2015 #52

Then let's clarify. okasha May 2015 #171

But these are only arguments edhopper May 2015 #177

links? notadmblnd May 2015 #178

You gave the pertinent references yourself. okasha May 2015 #180

that's right I did notadmblnd May 2015 #181

Very nice cut and paste. okasha May 2015 #182

yeah, so? notadmblnd May 2015 #183

This message was self-deleted by its author notadmblnd May 2015 #53

Worst argument I've seen on DU today. doxyluv13 May 2015 #152

See post 171. okasha May 2015 #172

Anything significant Major Nikon May 2015 #175

Significant with a few centuries'hindsight. okasha May 2015 #179

There was a Roman presence in all of these areas Major Nikon May 2015 #185

He sounded very progressive in his day 99% who today claim to be Conservatives would hate his guts. gordianot May 2015 #5

Did Christians exist in the first century CE? rug May 2015 #6

Some debate about that, that is when what I like to call mumbo jumbo started up. gordianot May 2015 #7

Did Mormons exist in the 19th Century? edhopper May 2015 #10

Did Joseph Smith exist? rug May 2015 #11

so you missed the point edhopper May 2015 #12

Not at all. Let me sharpen it for you. rug May 2015 #13

you seem to think edhopper May 2015 #15

"Did the Jesus in the New Testament exist?" rug May 2015 #16

so the central question edhopper May 2015 #19

It is fascinating. And it's been done. The message is far more fascinating. rug May 2015 #20

so you have edhopper May 2015 #25

I've read enough. If there is anything new I'll read it. rug May 2015 #26

I will leave it at that edhopper May 2015 #28

Just as well. Snarky retorts tend to result in snarky retorts. rug May 2015 #32

To be fair, he/she only said they would dwell on the message, not practice it. notadmblnd May 2015 #54

Did Descartes exist? Or did he just *think* he did? (Sorry--couldn't resist.) tblue37 May 2015 #151

If I stop thinking about it, will I die? rug May 2015 #164

Apparently, but who knows? longship May 2015 #14

There was one jewish guru called Yeshua Yorktown May 2015 #17

I can only add edhopper May 2015 #22

Sorry, I was inattentive. Yes, absolutely, Mark. Yorktown May 2015 #34

More importantly, was any "real" Jesus anything like skepticscott May 2015 #18

Speaking of pseudo-intellectuals, what is described is not magic. rug May 2015 #29

Then what is edhopper May 2015 #41

It all makes for a remarkable show delrem May 2015 #57

Here: rug May 2015 #60

Some care if the very basis of a religion edhopper May 2015 #64

That's a shallow, simplistic - and wrong - conclusion. rug May 2015 #67

Not a bad explaination Major Nikon May 2015 #176

It's not? phil89 May 2015 #58

I see scottie is not alone. rug May 2015 #61

Short answer, all the NT magic appeared with the texts. No reports at the time. Yorktown May 2015 #38

The most damning evidence in that vein in my mind... gcomeau May 2015 #165

Plus the fact not ONE version of the resurrection agrees with another Yorktown May 2015 #168

Yep, not even close to agreeing with each other. -eom gcomeau May 2015 #169

Don't be ridiculous. Of course not. Might as well ask if Paul Bunyon really existed. n/t Binkie The Clown May 2015 #23

Bt he said that's not what he's asking. rug May 2015 #27

But if he didn't have the magic powers, who was he? immoderate May 2015 #37

For starters, not a magician. rug May 2015 #62

Word games. immoderate May 2015 #66

Words are not games. rug May 2015 #68

And the game takes us to the question: immoderate May 2015 #71

If not, he was an interesting passing figure. rug May 2015 #73

A nobody who was euhemerized*. immoderate May 2015 #79

If you mean euphemism, rug May 2015 #81

No. I say what I mean. And I mean what I say. immoderate May 2015 #85

Ok, Popeye. Thanks for a new word. rug May 2015 #86

OK. So then, who was he? immoderate May 2015 #87

He is who he said he is. rug May 2015 #88

Perhaps to you. If you eliminate the superhero in the book, who have you got? immoderate May 2015 #89

And not to you. So what? rug May 2015 #90

If you skip the magic, he doesn't eclipse King Lear, or Gilgamesh... immoderate May 2015 #91

I would have thought Grendel was your standard. rug May 2015 #130

He's asking if the Biblical Jesus, in other words, Binkie The Clown May 2015 #56

The question is correct. rug May 2015 #63

You can characterize edhopper May 2015 #65

Repeating yourself does not make you correct on the third or fourth repetition. rug May 2015 #69

Nor you edhopper May 2015 #98

The ability to distinguish difference is a sign of intelligence. rug May 2015 #104

distinguish difference is a sign of intelligence. The converse is also true. AlbertCat May 2015 #109

QED rug May 2015 #112

And obsessing over a difference edhopper May 2015 #111

Obsessing over something that doesn't exist is downtright peculiar. rug May 2015 #113

are you being edhopper May 2015 #116

Ironical AlbertCat May 2015 #149

I might go with.. NeoGreen May 2015 #155

Obsessing over something that doesn't exist is downtright peculiar. AlbertCat May 2015 #150

I was thinking edhopper May 2015 #158

And there's people in India Binkie The Clown May 2015 #100

If youre referring to TM.that has been investigated. rug May 2015 #106

No, not TM. This goes way back, long before the TM craze. Binkie The Clown May 2015 #108

I see lots of infantilism going on in here. rug May 2015 #114

It's more like the one thing the Wise Men can agree on Leontius May 2015 #117

Infantilism? Like beliefs grounded in tall tales told by parental figures? Yorktown May 2015 #119

Case in point . . . . rug May 2015 #120

Acting superior isn't a sound talking point. Yorktown May 2015 #122

It just seems that way when I respond to you. rug May 2015 #123

Do tell me what 'case in point' meant then. Yorktown May 2015 #124

case in point rug May 2015 #126

Thank you, I knew that. Yorktown May 2015 #127

Oh, it was said in the most literal sense. rug May 2015 #128

Explain what you think you meant Yorktown May 2015 #129

No edhopper May 2015 #131

I like beans. Binkie The Clown May 2015 #141

what kind? edhopper May 2015 #147

All kinds, really. Binkie The Clown May 2015 #153

Ah edhopper May 2015 #157

The reason for the word supernatural is ignorance. Yorktown May 2015 #121

You have unwittingly stumbled upon an epistemological point. rug May 2015 #125

I won't waste time on epistemology. Show me some supernatural. Yorktown May 2015 #133

You know what you know and that's all there is to it. rug May 2015 #136

No. I politely asked you to show some supernatural. Yorktown May 2015 #140

"I won't waste time on epistemology." rug May 2015 #142

No. Show me proof of the supernatural, not words of epistemology Yorktown May 2015 #144

PS: how do you know unicorns do not exist? Yorktown May 2015 #134

Easy-peasey. Unicorns have specific physical attributes and properties. rug May 2015 #137

You still haven't demonstrated the inexistence of unicorns. Yorktown May 2015 #139

Let's assume there was a man by that name edhopper May 2015 #30

I like the Jesus in the book, Lamb by Christopher Moore kimbutgar May 2015 #33

Too bad the bible Jesus phil89 May 2015 #59

I've always been fascinated by the need for the Christian religions to promulgate a myth. Maedhros May 2015 #55

yes Leontius May 2015 #72

Do you mean "Yes, I agree" or "Yes, Jesus' message would be less true"? [n/t] Maedhros May 2015 #74

yes, the message would be less true Leontius May 2015 #75

I'm interested in your take on that. Maedhros May 2015 #76

There is one essential truth that cannot be ignored Leontius May 2015 #92

I recognize that it is your truth, and I can respect your acceptance of it. Maedhros May 2015 #93

We don't disagree on the value of the teachings or their truth Leontius May 2015 #97

"Love one another." Maedhros May 2015 #105

Simple yes. Easy, not so much for many. Leontius May 2015 #107

Indeed, many Christians struggle mightily with that. trotsky May 2015 #161

It's a long Christian tradition edhopper May 2015 #163

It's a hard thing being human isn't it Leontius May 2015 #166

Yes I see a lot of that from so-called Christians. trotsky May 2015 #167

Jews ignore that. trotsky May 2015 #95

Everyone has a choice to make Leontius May 2015 #99

I notice you didn't answer the question. trotsky May 2015 #132

Except that whole salvation thing. phil89 May 2015 #78

Like I said, promulgation of myth. Maedhros May 2015 #80

I tie that to the view of some Christians that atheists must be immoral Jackpine Radical May 2015 #84

I see it as an enforcement measure. Maedhros May 2015 #94

I'm sorry, but Jackpine Radical May 2015 #96

What difference would it make. cbayer May 2015 #70

None to you edhopper May 2015 #101

The question was sincere. cbayer May 2015 #110

ask a Christian edhopper May 2015 #115

Do you think you "win" if you can somehow prove that the historical cbayer May 2015 #145

it's not about whether historical Jesus existed edhopper May 2015 #146

You are asking if Truth matters. Yorktown May 2015 #118

The Jesus I read about in the gospels upaloopa May 2015 #77

Maybe. Jackpine Radical May 2015 #82

Scholar Bart Ehrman believes he existed deutsey May 2015 #83

Does his existence edhopper May 2015 #103

Well, you have to understand what the Gospels are deutsey May 2015 #135

That explanation is too vague Yorktown May 2015 #143

you would think that would be edhopper May 2015 #148

I think it's not an either/or proposition, personally deutsey May 2015 #154

Thanks for the thoughtful edhopper May 2015 #159

You're correct deutsey May 2015 #160

They did indeed edhopper May 2015 #162

Did the Gospels writers invent? Did they know they were not factual? Yorktown May 2015 #170

That's a good question deutsey May 2015 #174

That's an excellent summary. okasha May 2015 #173

It isnt important to me if he lived or not. What is important to me is randys1 May 2015 #102

I vote no rurallib May 2015 #138

There may have been... NeoGreen May 2015 #156