Religion

trotsky

(49,533 posts)

143. "those that take their holy books literally"

Tue May 12, 2015, 10:20 AM

May 2015

How much of one's holy book can one take literally before you label them a literalist?

Is it a 100% or nothing deal with you, or what?

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New Atheism’s fatal arrogance: The glaring intellectual laziness of Bill Maher & Richard Dawkins [View all] cbayer May 2015 OP

The meme that all believers are violent or controlling is ridiculous shenmue May 2015 #1

I haven't really seen that meme. cbayer May 2015 #2

Seriously? Brainstormy May 2015 #3

Making the author's point there, brainstormy. cbayer May 2015 #4

It's unbelievable people phil89 May 2015 #5

Also making the author's point. cbayer May 2015 #8

They are phil89 May 2015 #9

No, they are not irrational by definition. cbayer May 2015 #10

You're in the phil89 May 2015 #11

Religious belief has nothing to do with rationality. It can't be judged using that measure. cbayer May 2015 #12

Answer your own question, cbayer skepticscott May 2015 #55

OK, let me jump in here rock May 2015 #87

Does religion purports to be true and rational? I'm not so sure. cbayer May 2015 #89

As usual you have a tight grip on logic rock May 2015 #90

While I agree that there are believers that are literalists, I think most cbayer May 2015 #92

Yes, a big majority do not offend me at all (most are NOT literalists) rock May 2015 #95

Glad to know that. cbayer May 2015 #109

While I agree that there are believers that are literalists, AlbertCat May 2015 #136

Lol, let's talk about what literalists are, then you can carry on with you proselytizing. cbayer May 2015 #140

"those that take their holy books literally" trotsky May 2015 #143

Indeed we should talk about that, as you get it wrong. Warren Stupidity May 2015 #168

Um yes... skepticscott May 2015 #100

Oddly the use of the phrase "it is true that" Warren Stupidity May 2015 #210

If I follow the Christian tenet to "Love one another" Maedhros May 2015 #204

Seriously. bvf May 2015 #6

+1,000,000,000 Dawson Leery May 2015 #7

"And religion has to be resisted because there are genuine societal costs." Jim__ May 2015 #13

My takeaway is that the author would agree with you. cbayer May 2015 #14

Voltaire on Christianity: muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #15

"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe ... muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #16

Sure it's enough. It's enough for Dawkins and for you and for cbayer May 2015 #18

And that pretty much sums up your whole take on reality, cbayer skepticscott May 2015 #19

"not believing in the fairies...is as legitimate as believing in the fairies"? beam me up scottie May 2015 #24

So the next time you object to the tooth fairy Warren Stupidity May 2015 #73

ooooooooo, TWO big scary pictures of atheists this time. beam me up scottie May 2015 #17

Do you mean the "hit piece" on atheists by atheist Adam Lee? rug May 2015 #21

The condescending twit who said women were too intimidated by old white men to become atheists? beam me up scottie May 2015 #23

Are you confusing him with Rebecca Watson? rug May 2015 #26

Fatal arrogance??!! Methinks... immoderate May 2015 #20

Hmmm, methinks... cbayer May 2015 #22

Yes, it would be... immoderate May 2015 #25

Exactly. If you know for sure, then you are right to say so. cbayer May 2015 #27

I know nothing "for sure," but I don't have to be arrogant to know there are things that don't exist immoderate May 2015 #28

Do you know that no gods exist? cbayer May 2015 #29

As well as it can be known. immoderate May 2015 #39

As well as it can be known that one does exist. cbayer May 2015 #41

I know what "make believe" is. immoderate May 2015 #45

You have things that you think are "make believe" and others have a different list. cbayer May 2015 #46

I know that the vast majority have beliefs that are clearly prohibitive. immoderate May 2015 #53

They might all be wrong, and so might you. cbayer May 2015 #62

When the similarities between God and Santa Claus are pointed out, a lot of believers take offence muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #69

I can't imagine why people take offense when they are told that their belief in god cbayer May 2015 #74

Do you think it's a rational position to say leprechauns are made up? muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #83

I think your making comparisons between leprechauns and god is a big part of the problem. cbayer May 2015 #84

You are not answering a question about your own posts here muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #85

Where did I say that? cbayer May 2015 #88

#46: muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #93

So, you have just shown clearly that I did not say this: cbayer May 2015 #97

I'm not going to mollycoddle people with evidence-free beliefs about supernatural beings muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #113

And that right there says it all. cbayer May 2015 #116

No, it's not 'sad', it's freedom of speech and thought, and quite liberating muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #121

"The world is yours to judge." trotsky May 2015 #123

But you JUST said phil89 May 2015 #154

Edited cbayer May 2015 #157

I will from time to time contradict myself as I learn new information. AlbertCat May 2015 #165

I do use regular ways of knowing and don't know about other ways. cbayer May 2015 #167

don't know about other ways. AlbertCat May 2015 #203

We? I know that y'all have memories, but they are often very distorted. cbayer May 2015 #206

Oh so you realized you'd painted yourself into a very uncomfortable corner with your Warren Stupidity May 2015 #170

However arrogant you might deem that to be tkmorris May 2015 #47

There's a meme for that: beam me up scottie May 2015 #48

I would deem them both arrogant. cbayer May 2015 #59

Still, never mind, eh? mr blur May 2015 #30

OMFG! How sad that we don't want to share their delusions. Binkie The Clown May 2015 #31

"New Atheists show little interest in understanding how believers really think or feel" rug May 2015 #32

And it's so nice that there are those that are willing to jump in and give glaring cbayer May 2015 #34

I had a fairly extensive religious education in Christianity anyway.. Fumesucker May 2015 #37

Hostility is a very nasty thing. rug May 2015 #38

Exactly on target Leontius May 2015 #51

On Sun May 10, 2015, 06:46 PM an alert was sent on the following post: XemaSab May 2015 #120

I fear you missed the whole point. cbayer May 2015 #33

Do psychologists need to share delusions to understand them? immoderate May 2015 #43

I fear that you don't understand what a delusion is. cbayer May 2015 #44

In a clinical setting, I would approach appropriately. immoderate May 2015 #52

Do you have the credentials to determine what is and is not delusional. cbayer May 2015 #63

Hogwash skepticscott May 2015 #56

"Do beliefs change reality?" LTX May 2015 #215

Please continue... immoderate May 2015 #218

Examples abound. LTX May 2015 #236

We are using different concepts of reality. immoderate May 2015 #238

You lost me. LTX May 2015 #239

The reality I refer to is: that which is not altered by perception. immoderate May 2015 #240

Well, I'm really perplexed now. LTX May 2015 #241

Is infrared real? immoderate May 2015 #242

Certainly. LTX May 2015 #243

In this context I would say "no." immoderate May 2015 #244

LOL! I like the idea of an equivocation group. LTX May 2015 #245

For some people "reality" means Obama is a Muslim. immoderate May 2015 #246

That's a pretty good example of the need for definitional gradations. LTX May 2015 #248

atheists edhopper May 2015 #35

This article addresses a subgroup. cbayer May 2015 #36

How could we *not* know what theists "think and feel" about their religion? Fumesucker May 2015 #40

You are surrounded by people that talk about it all the time, as you have said many times. cbayer May 2015 #42

I have asked some of the Christians I know "What if you had never met another Christian?" Fumesucker May 2015 #50

That's a gotcha question. cbayer May 2015 #61

It's a question taken straight from my own personal experience Fumesucker May 2015 #67

Since your experience is that you are a non-believer even though you hadn't been cbayer May 2015 #77

How come no one ever answers the question in a straightforward manner then? Fumesucker May 2015 #124

I would guess because they don't know the answer. cbayer May 2015 #127

I think edhopper May 2015 #49

Oh, please. Dawkins et al has no idea what motivates people who cbayer May 2015 #60

Dawkins coined the word 'meme' while discussing why people hold beliefs, about 40 years ago muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #70

Dawkins made up a lot of stuff, but what he didn't do was actually study cbayer May 2015 #79

Dawkins has gone out of his way to engage Warren Stupidity May 2015 #76

You keep pointing phil89 May 2015 #104

Heavens no. It's an opinion piece and doesn't claim to be anything other than that. cbayer May 2015 #107

Nice, provocative post. guillaumeb May 2015 #54

"I have never heard an atheist give a convincing explanation as to how they are certain... Act_of_Reparation May 2015 #57

Ah, the calling someone's point a fallacy fallacy. cbayer May 2015 #65

Ah, the calling a fallacy a fallacy fallacy. Act_of_Reparation May 2015 #105

"You're obviously confused". Thank gawd that you are hear to 'splain things to me. cbayer May 2015 #108

Don't you see? Major Nikon May 2015 #126

Gibberish? You deem my responses gibberish? cbayer May 2015 #128

No Major Nikon May 2015 #134

I think calling things fallacies instead of actually countering them amounts to gibberish. cbayer May 2015 #135

One certainly can't argue with that kind of logic Major Nikon May 2015 #137

Do you understand what a fallacy is and why if a claim is based on fallacious logic that is Warren Stupidity May 2015 #171

I know, right? Act_of_Reparation May 2015 #130

Evil genius of Fox-like standards? But you think I'm probably just incompetent? cbayer May 2015 #131

Too funny! trotsky May 2015 #133

I have to agree - Hanlon's razor. beam me up scottie May 2015 #169

Avoidance and evasion. guillaumeb May 2015 #94

Neither is anyone else. Act_of_Reparation May 2015 #106

You must be confused. That was a perfectly good response. cbayer May 2015 #110

Yes, atheists are so arrogant. beam me up scottie May 2015 #58

IMO, no one can give a convincing explanation for either the existence or lack of existence cbayer May 2015 #64

What about those who reject everyone else who *doesn't* have faith? Fumesucker May 2015 #68

Being a lot more common does not equate with being a lot worse. cbayer May 2015 #80

Or tooth fairies, or Easter bunnies or unicorns Warren Stupidity May 2015 #78

The same can be said for Russell's teapot Major Nikon May 2015 #186

Yes, the same can be said. So what? cbayer May 2015 #192

Exactly Major Nikon May 2015 #195

Shifting the burden of proof seems to be a popular tactic among believers Major Nikon May 2015 #125

Is shifting the burden of proof guillaumeb May 2015 #153

Yes Major Nikon May 2015 #175

OMG, you have made my day! cbayer May 2015 #160

I think you need this. trotsky May 2015 #162

it seems cbrayer thinks pointing out a logical fallacy is some sort of insult. Warren Stupidity May 2015 #172

Using a logical fallacy is an insult Major Nikon May 2015 #201

Not to mention atheists aren't "shifting the burden of proof". beam me up scottie May 2015 #173

You are wrong because the moon is made of blue cheese Major Nikon May 2015 #174

More substantive responses. cbayer May 2015 #176

Failing to address my argument is a fallacy Major Nikon May 2015 #177

You seem to know more about atheists than atheists do, but I'm not a "true atheist"... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #211

Sort of like some non-believers seem to know more about believers than believers do, but cbayer May 2015 #216

I don't think anyone here is claiming you are not a "true non-believer", just that you... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #253

Oh, no. People have frequently said I am not a true non-believer. cbayer May 2015 #254

I'll give an example of what I'm talking about, in this thread, we have... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #255

I don't give a shit what guillamubed has said. cbayer May 2015 #256

The point is that he propped up a strawman atheist, who isn't even close to representative... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #257

I used the term "conditional atheist". guillaumeb May 2015 #217

That's a scientific question, and the answer is, we don't know. Humanist_Activist May 2015 #228

That is the difference between scientists and creationists. beam me up scottie May 2015 #229

What's infuriating is that this answer isn't enough, they want us to claim to know it all. Humanist_Activist May 2015 #252

This article isn't making any point. But one passage is very funny. Yorktown May 2015 #66

By laughing at it, you prove his point. Cartoonist May 2015 #71

Believers say that. Non-beleivers say that. The author is an atheist he he says it. cbayer May 2015 #75

No. I just laugh at the demonstrable lack of logic of his assertions. Yorktown May 2015 #119

The Comfort Of Religion And The Purpose Of Life muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #72

I guess I'm an Old Atheist Boomer May 2015 #81

You are a typical atheist, imo. cbayer May 2015 #82

If a local sports team edhopper May 2015 #86

Is there a religious group in your community using a billion dollars cbayer May 2015 #91

I was addressing the analogy Boomer used edhopper May 2015 #96

You weren't making a comparison? Odd post, then. cbayer May 2015 #98

The point was edhopper May 2015 #99

Of course religion has an influence, but when you resort to such hyperbole, cbayer May 2015 #101

You underestimate the influence edhopper May 2015 #102

You sometimes overestimate the influence of both. cbayer May 2015 #103

I know they can edhopper May 2015 #111

hyperbole like "atheism's fatal arrogance"? Warren Stupidity May 2015 #112

"It's hyperbole, something frequently used when debating or having a discussion." trotsky May 2015 #129

Wanting to put catholic hospitals out of business = PROPOSING GENOCIDE??? beam me up scottie May 2015 #164

And then to turn around and attack someone else for using "hyperbole"... trotsky May 2015 #183

When you can't refute your opponents argument it's best to lie about their motives. beam me up scottie May 2015 #190

Fatal Arrogance? Freelancer May 2015 #114

This isn't my post. It's a cut and paste of an article posted elsewhere. cbayer May 2015 #117

Okay Freelancer May 2015 #118

That entire article is infuriatingly hilarious. gcomeau May 2015 #115

Seriously? trotsky May 2015 #122

Let's see.... One's a top notch scientists, and one's a comedian. AlbertCat May 2015 #132

How very true! Neither of them is a religious scholar or even has any education cbayer May 2015 #138

Neither of them is a religious scholar AlbertCat May 2015 #139

Say what? You really should have some expertise if you are going to cbayer May 2015 #141

What's your theological expertise, cbayer? trotsky May 2015 #142

Many religious experts are athiests Major Nikon May 2015 #144

I never said someone had to be a believer. cbayer May 2015 #145

What you've failed to do is explain how this is at all relevant Major Nikon May 2015 #146

One can proclaim the sky is blue without being a colorimetrist, cbayer May 2015 #147

Hardly Major Nikon May 2015 #148

Perhaps, but religion is very, very complicated. cbayer May 2015 #149

"when someone completely dismisses someone else's POV" trotsky May 2015 #150

You either believe in something or you don't Major Nikon May 2015 #178

Judging from this response, you think that belief or non-belief constitute cbayer May 2015 #179

Strawman Major Nikon May 2015 #181

So is the plot of "Primer". gcomeau May 2015 #231

cbayer claims to be trained as a scientist but said this about fairies: beam me up scottie May 2015 #166

Experts AlbertCat May 2015 #152

Oh, gobsmacked am I. cbayer May 2015 #156

The field of religion? phil89 May 2015 #158

What's funny about it phil? cbayer May 2015 #159

Lots of things Major Nikon May 2015 #209

Cute. Really overused, but cute. cbayer May 2015 #213

Sure Major Nikon May 2015 #221

Interesting Choice of Name HassleCat May 2015 #151

If that's it, they really ought to join others making the case to those who make the laws - pinto May 2015 #155

Is this the first time you are hearing this? cbayer May 2015 #161

LMAO trotsky May 2015 #163

New Atheism doesn't mean you have to be combative towards religion Major Nikon May 2015 #180

Yet another definition that is not generally shared. cbayer May 2015 #182

I could ask you the same question about your definition Major Nikon May 2015 #184

Isn't hard to find? You have to dig down pretty deeply in that wiki link cbayer May 2015 #191

It's actually in the very first sentence Major Nikon May 2015 #194

Now I'm getting concerned. cbayer May 2015 #196

"Concerned"? About what? trotsky May 2015 #197

Neither is the word "combative" anywhere in the link Major Nikon May 2015 #199

You are the only person that has used combative in this entire thread. cbayer May 2015 #205

This was hard... Major Nikon May 2015 #208

You are right. cbayer May 2015 #214

This was even harder... Major Nikon May 2015 #220

Oh, no. I lost!?!?!? How will I go on? cbayer May 2015 #222

And yet you do go on Major Nikon May 2015 #223

Did you just compare me to Bill O'Reilly? cbayer May 2015 #224

I pointed out "countered, criticized and exposed" might sound like an attack on religion to BillO Major Nikon May 2015 #225

Truly a delightful subthread to follow. trotsky May 2015 #237

What is the test? rug May 2015 #185

God Major Nikon May 2015 #187

So, what's the test for God? rug May 2015 #188

Take your pick... Major Nikon May 2015 #189

No, I'll take yours, the "God Hypothesis". rug May 2015 #193

Take whatever you want Major Nikon May 2015 #198

So are the books. rug May 2015 #200

Dismiss whatever you want Major Nikon May 2015 #202

As you have produced no evidence of a "test", I will. rug May 2015 #207

Can you present any evidence proving a God? Yorktown May 2015 #212

The poster did. rug May 2015 #219

You're not answering my question. Yorktown May 2015 #230

If you need arrows, here they are. rug May 2015 #232

Agreed. Then why bother? Yorktown May 2015 #233

Precisely. Which is why I questioned the claim. rug May 2015 #234

Bill Maher Jane Austin May 2015 #226

He's even more ignorant when it comes to Islam. cbayer May 2015 #227

says the person who hasn't read the Quran Yorktown May 2015 #235

Belief nil desperandum May 2015 #247

I don't agree that it is a waste of your most precious resource - your mind and your life. cbayer May 2015 #249

Change nil desperandum May 2015 #250

Change occurs as a result of opposing religion? cbayer May 2015 #251