Religion

cbayer

(146,218 posts)

156. Oh, gobsmacked am I.

Tue May 12, 2015, 01:29 PM

May 2015

You have compared religion to Klingon.

That is so cool.

I'm waiting for the announcement of your Nobel Prize for having disproven god. Will you send me an invite?

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New Atheism’s fatal arrogance: The glaring intellectual laziness of Bill Maher & Richard Dawkins [View all] cbayer May 2015 OP

The meme that all believers are violent or controlling is ridiculous shenmue May 2015 #1

I haven't really seen that meme. cbayer May 2015 #2

Seriously? Brainstormy May 2015 #3

Making the author's point there, brainstormy. cbayer May 2015 #4

It's unbelievable people phil89 May 2015 #5

Also making the author's point. cbayer May 2015 #8

They are phil89 May 2015 #9

No, they are not irrational by definition. cbayer May 2015 #10

You're in the phil89 May 2015 #11

Religious belief has nothing to do with rationality. It can't be judged using that measure. cbayer May 2015 #12

Answer your own question, cbayer skepticscott May 2015 #55

OK, let me jump in here rock May 2015 #87

Does religion purports to be true and rational? I'm not so sure. cbayer May 2015 #89

As usual you have a tight grip on logic rock May 2015 #90

While I agree that there are believers that are literalists, I think most cbayer May 2015 #92

Yes, a big majority do not offend me at all (most are NOT literalists) rock May 2015 #95

Glad to know that. cbayer May 2015 #109

While I agree that there are believers that are literalists, AlbertCat May 2015 #136

Lol, let's talk about what literalists are, then you can carry on with you proselytizing. cbayer May 2015 #140

"those that take their holy books literally" trotsky May 2015 #143

Indeed we should talk about that, as you get it wrong. Warren Stupidity May 2015 #168

Um yes... skepticscott May 2015 #100

Oddly the use of the phrase "it is true that" Warren Stupidity May 2015 #210

If I follow the Christian tenet to "Love one another" Maedhros May 2015 #204

Seriously. bvf May 2015 #6

+1,000,000,000 Dawson Leery May 2015 #7

"And religion has to be resisted because there are genuine societal costs." Jim__ May 2015 #13

My takeaway is that the author would agree with you. cbayer May 2015 #14

Voltaire on Christianity: muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #15

"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe ... muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #16

Sure it's enough. It's enough for Dawkins and for you and for cbayer May 2015 #18

And that pretty much sums up your whole take on reality, cbayer skepticscott May 2015 #19

"not believing in the fairies...is as legitimate as believing in the fairies"? beam me up scottie May 2015 #24

So the next time you object to the tooth fairy Warren Stupidity May 2015 #73

ooooooooo, TWO big scary pictures of atheists this time. beam me up scottie May 2015 #17

Do you mean the "hit piece" on atheists by atheist Adam Lee? rug May 2015 #21

The condescending twit who said women were too intimidated by old white men to become atheists? beam me up scottie May 2015 #23

Are you confusing him with Rebecca Watson? rug May 2015 #26

Fatal arrogance??!! Methinks... immoderate May 2015 #20

Hmmm, methinks... cbayer May 2015 #22

Yes, it would be... immoderate May 2015 #25

Exactly. If you know for sure, then you are right to say so. cbayer May 2015 #27

I know nothing "for sure," but I don't have to be arrogant to know there are things that don't exist immoderate May 2015 #28

Do you know that no gods exist? cbayer May 2015 #29

As well as it can be known. immoderate May 2015 #39

As well as it can be known that one does exist. cbayer May 2015 #41

I know what "make believe" is. immoderate May 2015 #45

You have things that you think are "make believe" and others have a different list. cbayer May 2015 #46

I know that the vast majority have beliefs that are clearly prohibitive. immoderate May 2015 #53

They might all be wrong, and so might you. cbayer May 2015 #62

When the similarities between God and Santa Claus are pointed out, a lot of believers take offence muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #69

I can't imagine why people take offense when they are told that their belief in god cbayer May 2015 #74

Do you think it's a rational position to say leprechauns are made up? muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #83

I think your making comparisons between leprechauns and god is a big part of the problem. cbayer May 2015 #84

You are not answering a question about your own posts here muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #85

Where did I say that? cbayer May 2015 #88

#46: muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #93

So, you have just shown clearly that I did not say this: cbayer May 2015 #97

I'm not going to mollycoddle people with evidence-free beliefs about supernatural beings muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #113

And that right there says it all. cbayer May 2015 #116

No, it's not 'sad', it's freedom of speech and thought, and quite liberating muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #121

"The world is yours to judge." trotsky May 2015 #123

But you JUST said phil89 May 2015 #154

Edited cbayer May 2015 #157

I will from time to time contradict myself as I learn new information. AlbertCat May 2015 #165

I do use regular ways of knowing and don't know about other ways. cbayer May 2015 #167

don't know about other ways. AlbertCat May 2015 #203

We? I know that y'all have memories, but they are often very distorted. cbayer May 2015 #206

Oh so you realized you'd painted yourself into a very uncomfortable corner with your Warren Stupidity May 2015 #170

However arrogant you might deem that to be tkmorris May 2015 #47

There's a meme for that: beam me up scottie May 2015 #48

I would deem them both arrogant. cbayer May 2015 #59

Still, never mind, eh? mr blur May 2015 #30

OMFG! How sad that we don't want to share their delusions. Binkie The Clown May 2015 #31

"New Atheists show little interest in understanding how believers really think or feel" rug May 2015 #32

And it's so nice that there are those that are willing to jump in and give glaring cbayer May 2015 #34

I had a fairly extensive religious education in Christianity anyway.. Fumesucker May 2015 #37

Hostility is a very nasty thing. rug May 2015 #38

Exactly on target Leontius May 2015 #51

On Sun May 10, 2015, 06:46 PM an alert was sent on the following post: XemaSab May 2015 #120

I fear you missed the whole point. cbayer May 2015 #33

Do psychologists need to share delusions to understand them? immoderate May 2015 #43

I fear that you don't understand what a delusion is. cbayer May 2015 #44

In a clinical setting, I would approach appropriately. immoderate May 2015 #52

Do you have the credentials to determine what is and is not delusional. cbayer May 2015 #63

Hogwash skepticscott May 2015 #56

"Do beliefs change reality?" LTX May 2015 #215

Please continue... immoderate May 2015 #218

Examples abound. LTX May 2015 #236

We are using different concepts of reality. immoderate May 2015 #238

You lost me. LTX May 2015 #239

The reality I refer to is: that which is not altered by perception. immoderate May 2015 #240

Well, I'm really perplexed now. LTX May 2015 #241

Is infrared real? immoderate May 2015 #242

Certainly. LTX May 2015 #243

In this context I would say "no." immoderate May 2015 #244

LOL! I like the idea of an equivocation group. LTX May 2015 #245

For some people "reality" means Obama is a Muslim. immoderate May 2015 #246

That's a pretty good example of the need for definitional gradations. LTX May 2015 #248

atheists edhopper May 2015 #35

This article addresses a subgroup. cbayer May 2015 #36

How could we *not* know what theists "think and feel" about their religion? Fumesucker May 2015 #40

You are surrounded by people that talk about it all the time, as you have said many times. cbayer May 2015 #42

I have asked some of the Christians I know "What if you had never met another Christian?" Fumesucker May 2015 #50

That's a gotcha question. cbayer May 2015 #61

It's a question taken straight from my own personal experience Fumesucker May 2015 #67

Since your experience is that you are a non-believer even though you hadn't been cbayer May 2015 #77

How come no one ever answers the question in a straightforward manner then? Fumesucker May 2015 #124

I would guess because they don't know the answer. cbayer May 2015 #127

I think edhopper May 2015 #49

Oh, please. Dawkins et al has no idea what motivates people who cbayer May 2015 #60

Dawkins coined the word 'meme' while discussing why people hold beliefs, about 40 years ago muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #70

Dawkins made up a lot of stuff, but what he didn't do was actually study cbayer May 2015 #79

Dawkins has gone out of his way to engage Warren Stupidity May 2015 #76

You keep pointing phil89 May 2015 #104

Heavens no. It's an opinion piece and doesn't claim to be anything other than that. cbayer May 2015 #107

Nice, provocative post. guillaumeb May 2015 #54

"I have never heard an atheist give a convincing explanation as to how they are certain... Act_of_Reparation May 2015 #57

Ah, the calling someone's point a fallacy fallacy. cbayer May 2015 #65

Ah, the calling a fallacy a fallacy fallacy. Act_of_Reparation May 2015 #105

"You're obviously confused". Thank gawd that you are hear to 'splain things to me. cbayer May 2015 #108

Don't you see? Major Nikon May 2015 #126

Gibberish? You deem my responses gibberish? cbayer May 2015 #128

No Major Nikon May 2015 #134

I think calling things fallacies instead of actually countering them amounts to gibberish. cbayer May 2015 #135

One certainly can't argue with that kind of logic Major Nikon May 2015 #137

Do you understand what a fallacy is and why if a claim is based on fallacious logic that is Warren Stupidity May 2015 #171

I know, right? Act_of_Reparation May 2015 #130

Evil genius of Fox-like standards? But you think I'm probably just incompetent? cbayer May 2015 #131

Too funny! trotsky May 2015 #133

I have to agree - Hanlon's razor. beam me up scottie May 2015 #169

Avoidance and evasion. guillaumeb May 2015 #94

Neither is anyone else. Act_of_Reparation May 2015 #106

You must be confused. That was a perfectly good response. cbayer May 2015 #110

Yes, atheists are so arrogant. beam me up scottie May 2015 #58

IMO, no one can give a convincing explanation for either the existence or lack of existence cbayer May 2015 #64

What about those who reject everyone else who *doesn't* have faith? Fumesucker May 2015 #68

Being a lot more common does not equate with being a lot worse. cbayer May 2015 #80

Or tooth fairies, or Easter bunnies or unicorns Warren Stupidity May 2015 #78

The same can be said for Russell's teapot Major Nikon May 2015 #186

Yes, the same can be said. So what? cbayer May 2015 #192

Exactly Major Nikon May 2015 #195

Shifting the burden of proof seems to be a popular tactic among believers Major Nikon May 2015 #125

Is shifting the burden of proof guillaumeb May 2015 #153

Yes Major Nikon May 2015 #175

OMG, you have made my day! cbayer May 2015 #160

I think you need this. trotsky May 2015 #162

it seems cbrayer thinks pointing out a logical fallacy is some sort of insult. Warren Stupidity May 2015 #172

Using a logical fallacy is an insult Major Nikon May 2015 #201

Not to mention atheists aren't "shifting the burden of proof". beam me up scottie May 2015 #173

You are wrong because the moon is made of blue cheese Major Nikon May 2015 #174

More substantive responses. cbayer May 2015 #176

Failing to address my argument is a fallacy Major Nikon May 2015 #177

You seem to know more about atheists than atheists do, but I'm not a "true atheist"... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #211

Sort of like some non-believers seem to know more about believers than believers do, but cbayer May 2015 #216

I don't think anyone here is claiming you are not a "true non-believer", just that you... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #253

Oh, no. People have frequently said I am not a true non-believer. cbayer May 2015 #254

I'll give an example of what I'm talking about, in this thread, we have... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #255

I don't give a shit what guillamubed has said. cbayer May 2015 #256

The point is that he propped up a strawman atheist, who isn't even close to representative... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #257

I used the term "conditional atheist". guillaumeb May 2015 #217

That's a scientific question, and the answer is, we don't know. Humanist_Activist May 2015 #228

That is the difference between scientists and creationists. beam me up scottie May 2015 #229

What's infuriating is that this answer isn't enough, they want us to claim to know it all. Humanist_Activist May 2015 #252

This article isn't making any point. But one passage is very funny. Yorktown May 2015 #66

By laughing at it, you prove his point. Cartoonist May 2015 #71

Believers say that. Non-beleivers say that. The author is an atheist he he says it. cbayer May 2015 #75

No. I just laugh at the demonstrable lack of logic of his assertions. Yorktown May 2015 #119

The Comfort Of Religion And The Purpose Of Life muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #72

I guess I'm an Old Atheist Boomer May 2015 #81

You are a typical atheist, imo. cbayer May 2015 #82

If a local sports team edhopper May 2015 #86

Is there a religious group in your community using a billion dollars cbayer May 2015 #91

I was addressing the analogy Boomer used edhopper May 2015 #96

You weren't making a comparison? Odd post, then. cbayer May 2015 #98

The point was edhopper May 2015 #99

Of course religion has an influence, but when you resort to such hyperbole, cbayer May 2015 #101

You underestimate the influence edhopper May 2015 #102

You sometimes overestimate the influence of both. cbayer May 2015 #103

I know they can edhopper May 2015 #111

hyperbole like "atheism's fatal arrogance"? Warren Stupidity May 2015 #112

"It's hyperbole, something frequently used when debating or having a discussion." trotsky May 2015 #129

Wanting to put catholic hospitals out of business = PROPOSING GENOCIDE??? beam me up scottie May 2015 #164

And then to turn around and attack someone else for using "hyperbole"... trotsky May 2015 #183

When you can't refute your opponents argument it's best to lie about their motives. beam me up scottie May 2015 #190

Fatal Arrogance? Freelancer May 2015 #114

This isn't my post. It's a cut and paste of an article posted elsewhere. cbayer May 2015 #117

Okay Freelancer May 2015 #118

That entire article is infuriatingly hilarious. gcomeau May 2015 #115

Seriously? trotsky May 2015 #122

Let's see.... One's a top notch scientists, and one's a comedian. AlbertCat May 2015 #132

How very true! Neither of them is a religious scholar or even has any education cbayer May 2015 #138

Neither of them is a religious scholar AlbertCat May 2015 #139

Say what? You really should have some expertise if you are going to cbayer May 2015 #141

What's your theological expertise, cbayer? trotsky May 2015 #142

Many religious experts are athiests Major Nikon May 2015 #144

I never said someone had to be a believer. cbayer May 2015 #145

What you've failed to do is explain how this is at all relevant Major Nikon May 2015 #146

One can proclaim the sky is blue without being a colorimetrist, cbayer May 2015 #147

Hardly Major Nikon May 2015 #148

Perhaps, but religion is very, very complicated. cbayer May 2015 #149

"when someone completely dismisses someone else's POV" trotsky May 2015 #150

You either believe in something or you don't Major Nikon May 2015 #178

Judging from this response, you think that belief or non-belief constitute cbayer May 2015 #179

Strawman Major Nikon May 2015 #181

So is the plot of "Primer". gcomeau May 2015 #231

cbayer claims to be trained as a scientist but said this about fairies: beam me up scottie May 2015 #166

Experts AlbertCat May 2015 #152

Oh, gobsmacked am I. cbayer May 2015 #156

The field of religion? phil89 May 2015 #158

What's funny about it phil? cbayer May 2015 #159

Lots of things Major Nikon May 2015 #209

Cute. Really overused, but cute. cbayer May 2015 #213

Sure Major Nikon May 2015 #221

Interesting Choice of Name HassleCat May 2015 #151

If that's it, they really ought to join others making the case to those who make the laws - pinto May 2015 #155

Is this the first time you are hearing this? cbayer May 2015 #161

LMAO trotsky May 2015 #163

New Atheism doesn't mean you have to be combative towards religion Major Nikon May 2015 #180

Yet another definition that is not generally shared. cbayer May 2015 #182

I could ask you the same question about your definition Major Nikon May 2015 #184

Isn't hard to find? You have to dig down pretty deeply in that wiki link cbayer May 2015 #191

It's actually in the very first sentence Major Nikon May 2015 #194

Now I'm getting concerned. cbayer May 2015 #196

"Concerned"? About what? trotsky May 2015 #197

Neither is the word "combative" anywhere in the link Major Nikon May 2015 #199

You are the only person that has used combative in this entire thread. cbayer May 2015 #205

This was hard... Major Nikon May 2015 #208

You are right. cbayer May 2015 #214

This was even harder... Major Nikon May 2015 #220

Oh, no. I lost!?!?!? How will I go on? cbayer May 2015 #222

And yet you do go on Major Nikon May 2015 #223

Did you just compare me to Bill O'Reilly? cbayer May 2015 #224

I pointed out "countered, criticized and exposed" might sound like an attack on religion to BillO Major Nikon May 2015 #225

Truly a delightful subthread to follow. trotsky May 2015 #237

What is the test? rug May 2015 #185

God Major Nikon May 2015 #187

So, what's the test for God? rug May 2015 #188

Take your pick... Major Nikon May 2015 #189

No, I'll take yours, the "God Hypothesis". rug May 2015 #193

Take whatever you want Major Nikon May 2015 #198

So are the books. rug May 2015 #200

Dismiss whatever you want Major Nikon May 2015 #202

As you have produced no evidence of a "test", I will. rug May 2015 #207

Can you present any evidence proving a God? Yorktown May 2015 #212

The poster did. rug May 2015 #219

You're not answering my question. Yorktown May 2015 #230

If you need arrows, here they are. rug May 2015 #232

Agreed. Then why bother? Yorktown May 2015 #233

Precisely. Which is why I questioned the claim. rug May 2015 #234

Bill Maher Jane Austin May 2015 #226

He's even more ignorant when it comes to Islam. cbayer May 2015 #227

says the person who hasn't read the Quran Yorktown May 2015 #235

Belief nil desperandum May 2015 #247

I don't agree that it is a waste of your most precious resource - your mind and your life. cbayer May 2015 #249

Change nil desperandum May 2015 #250

Change occurs as a result of opposing religion? cbayer May 2015 #251